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New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86096&th=21487#msg_86096
For the speaker components I wanted to start with all-standard Eminence - but I got lucky and found a good deal on summer fire-sale and got myself B&C DE250 for just 25.- Euro more than PSD2002 per piece.
For the woofer I wanted to jump right on the upgraded part but it's price in Europe is just silly high (300,- Euro per piece) so I settle down for stock part Delta 12LFA.
Now that the funds are exhausted, I have to wait till next month to start working on the box itself, I will surely post many pictures of the build...
Initially I wanted to make 4Pi but after years of waiting to save some money for JBL 2226 woofers, I realized it is not going to happen as the JBL components are awfully expensive in Europe - asking price of 440,- Euro for just one woofer is pretty steep when you combine all other costs of build... so I re-read all reviews of anybody ever build 3Pi's and decided to get going with basic design and see for myself what is all about!
I know that many owners have upgraded from 3PI to 4Pi or even 6PI but in my case I won't be able due to costs of entire project. I hope I made right decision as I really want to have some serious sounding speakers in my room and hear that proper horn sound as I was never satisfied with normal woofer/mid/tweeter configuration.
Even the best ones where never good enough except for some older JBL 4412A series I had in the recording studio some 20 years ago and on occasion listening to 4425 - a two-way with the horn... well it had precision and fantastic insight in recorded music other speakers could not achieve. Even the big UREI 813A I had pleasure/pain to listen for extend period of time where honky, aggressive and coarse sounding and really needed a lot of power to sound best - so not the best speaker for home usage at all and this very experience made my final decision in favor of 12 inch woofer instead of 15 inch for the time being.
Please chime in with any suggestion or ideas regarding the decisions I made!
]]>tubemax2017-09-10T22:03:37-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86097&th=21487#msg_86097
Looks like you're off to a great start!
The four π loudspeaker model is not an improvement over the three π model. They just use different midwoofers.
What are improvements are the upgrades. So you might listen to the stock model for a while while saving money for the Definimax midwoofer. It's worth the money, and offers smoother sound. This is especially true in the midrange.
See the links below for more information about models and upgrades.
But don't worry - The stock build sounds good too. They are going to be some great speakers when you are done!]]>Wayne Parham2017-09-11T13:36:24-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86098&th=21487#msg_86098
I thought always that 4Pi being bigger ( bigger woofer ) and pricier would automatically means better sound, but I guess in your designs is maybe less important because they are based on same principles.
I actually wanted to go for all Eminence - upgraded Definimax woofer and psd2002 but it went other way around due to price difference.
Never mind, I would like to go myself slowly through the upgrade path and find out for myself differences in quality.
Can't wait to make some dust, you will hear from me very soon!]]>tubemax2017-09-11T17:34:07-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86099&th=21487#msg_86099
The 2226H midwoofer used in the four π loudspeaker is a very high-quality driver. But so is the Definimax used in the three π model. The 2226H does have a slight edge in that distortion is lower and efficiency is higher. But it's not night and day - Both are very good loudspeakers.
]]>Wayne Parham2017-09-11T20:19:21-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86422&th=21487#msg_86422
In the mean time I was breaking-in those Eminence 12LFA's in a guitar box - open back and they sounded ok, but need a tweeter to sound best... in short 12LFA's are not great guitar speakers, for BASS guitar they are awesome but need proper enclosure with the port...
]]>tubemax2017-10-29T21:06:38-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86423&th=21487#msg_86423
Makin' progress!
]]>Wayne Parham2017-10-29T23:41:11-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86448&th=21487#msg_86448
tom-m2017-11-01T03:11:08-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86456&th=21487#msg_86456
Yes, the 100 watt Zobel resistor is used in the three π loudspeaker just like it is on the four π model.
]]>Wayne Parham2017-11-01T17:23:36-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86515&th=21487#msg_86515
Now I can finally move to glueing everything together, then sanding, painting, sanding again, placing isolation, wiring... it could be ready in two weeks if all goes according to plan and yes I received Dummy load 100WATT 8 Ohm resistors from Parts-express so now is crossover complete as well...
btw, 100WATT resistor is actually not needed for 3 Pi if you using AE 12TDS if I'm not wrong?
]]>tubemax2017-11-10T22:12:19-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86516&th=21487#msg_86516
Looking great!
You could have used a plastic or cardboard port tube if you wanted. Many of our speaker models use a cardboard duct. For those models, we use tubes that are made for storing or mailing large blueprints. They have really thick sidewalls - so thick they're tough as baseball bats. Cut their length to size with a table saw and they work great for speaker ports. But the port on this model is pretty short so we glue small wood blocks on the baffle and drill through them, same as you've done.
About the Zobel resistor, you're right that the AE woofer doesn't need it. Eminence and JBL woofers do.
]]>Wayne Parham2017-11-10T22:39:58-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86517&th=21487#msg_86517
I was actually trying to find port tube with 2,5 inch INSIDE diameter but could not find any, all of them where 2,5 inch outside - not what your design demand, so went ahead and bite the bullet with drilling... it came out ok.
Another question, how well 3 Pi works with high power transistor amp's, for example crown XLI or XLS series ( AB & class D )?]]>tubemax2017-11-10T23:12:22-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86518&th=21487#msg_86518
I love Crown amps and have a couple of them myself. I prefer the older Class AB amps to the Class D amps, but I'll bet if I was lugging them around for gigs I might change my mind. But they're great for all-out SPL, and your speakers will love them.
About the port, the truth is the 2.5" O.D. tube would have worked just fine. The difference from the slight change of Helmholtz frequency is minor - Much less than the fluctuation you'll see from the shifting electro-mechanical parameters as voice coil temperature changes at various power levels. I design all my speakers with a wide margin of tolerance for this kind of shift.
]]>Wayne Parham2017-11-11T16:36:52-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86520&th=21487#msg_86520
]]>tubemax2017-11-11T23:53:23-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86600&th=21487#msg_86600
]]>tubemax2017-11-19T22:12:34-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86609&th=21487#msg_86609
Getting closer!
Won't be long before they're makin' music!
]]>Wayne Parham2017-11-20T14:39:22-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86613&th=21487#msg_86613
Yes, I can finally see light in the end of a tunnel...
]]>tubemax2017-11-20T21:18:30-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86648&th=21487#msg_86648
I decided to use the vinyl to wrap the speakers, also painted the back side and I'm just about to start with front side but my back started to hurt - the more material goes in to the box - the heavier it feels. need to rest for few days...
]]>tubemax2017-11-26T16:49:00-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86649&th=21487#msg_86649
Your cabinets look fantastic!
Won't be long now before they're makin' music!
]]>Wayne Parham2017-11-26T17:46:48-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86735&th=21487#msg_86735
Well after some pause, the work has been resumed, so far speakers are 99% ready and just waiting to install glass wool any day from now.
I did spend a lot of time in making those speaker grills, it's a tricky work and require a lot of patience if you want to achieve neat looking and tight grills!
Speaker raisers/stands are done as well, they are just there to help raise the woofer to a visible line with the listening position without any obstruction and are slightly angled as well. Total height is about 5 inch on the front side.
Stay tuned in for a couple of days for the first test...
]]>tubemax2017-12-12T19:11:15-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86736&th=21487#msg_86736
Wow! Those really look nice! I love the dark stain!
]]>Wayne Parham2017-12-12T21:42:36-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86737&th=21487#msg_86737
BTW, do you have any suggestion how to attach a π logo on to the grills?
I didn't made final logo yet, just a printed π logo on plain paper for the test but it's very ugly, I'll need to work around this detail later on...
Idea was to place a logo on the front baffle but once you put the grills on, almost nothing is visible anymore due to dark color of the speaker cloth.]]>tubemax2017-12-12T22:34:42-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86742&th=21487#msg_86742
I usually put the logo on the wood underneath the grilles. But then again, I usually leave the grilles off.
]]>Wayne Parham2017-12-13T14:09:01-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86743&th=21487#msg_86743
tom-m2017-12-13T18:22:02-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86793&th=21487#msg_86793
It took me good 3 months, but it was priceless experience & education on building speaker cabinets, they are now connected in my system for initial brake-in.
I'll won't go into the details about the sound at this time as I want them to brake-in fully, it would be too early to judge them now on their sound signature...
Still I can't ignore the fact that they are already producing extremely nice sound with full scale dynamics and life-size performers in your room...
I'm so happy with finally having big sounding monitors which are not flattering signal in any way, no thumping bloated bass or scorching highs to impress you in the showroom - non of this.
Instead, they portray life size images of performers without any fuss about or any lack of headroom with crystal clear, high definition sound coming from the H290C horn + B&C250 driver... really impressive smooth performance!
I will come later during the brake-in period and give my full review of this fine sounding speaker system, bloody good work Wayne!
Thanks to everybody in showing interest in my build, I will try to make better pictures during day light as this ones are rubbish!
Ready for glass wool installation...
Damping fitted...
Drivers mounted!
And standing on its feet...
]]>tubemax2017-12-16T22:05:27-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86794&th=21487#msg_86794
First listen in my system...
Left speaker and...
Right speaker...
That's all for now folks... till next time
]]>tubemax2017-12-16T22:10:47-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86797&th=21487#msg_86797
Fabulous!
Now your hour hard work pays off!
]]>Wayne Parham2017-12-17T15:27:37-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86900&th=21487#msg_86900
Well after two weeks of playing ( about 60-70 hours of break-in time ), there are significant positive changes in the sound. Woofer is going deeper and stronger, easily reaching 30-35 Hz in-room response, while compression driver smooth-out fully. Pi3's are finally playing nice from low, mid to high SPL and are sufficiently broken-in to assess their sound.
They truly portray large and wide sound with precision, depth, outstanding detail recovery, warm tonality and great dynamics. Guitars and vocals sound big and realistic while amplified instruments like bass guitar have real weight and is delight to listen on good recordings.
As a side effect, badly compressed music, badly mastered or any mistakes in production ( too much or too little bass, hot top end, etc... ) will be glaringly obvious - thanks to very detailed but smooth presentation of the this fine sounding horn speaker.
With modern Jazz recordings, ( like FourPlay, Chuck Loeb, Lee Ritenour, Joyce Cooling etc... ) they excel in great tonality, musicality, timing, slam and fun factor without even breaking a sweat.
Classical recording are something special as you really feel the live performance, presence, dynamics and sheer size of the venue it's been recorded. Even multitude amount of instruments simultaneously playing is not a difficult task for them.
With older Rock and Pop music it's a mixed feeling as every CD sound different - thanks to the producers who used way too much compression, reverb or other effects which are easily detectable with H290C Horn and B&C DE250 driver.
There is also a down point to this fine sounding speakers... ( and it's not their sound )...
Physically, Pi 3's are quite large speakers, way wider than any standard speaker I know, almost like a pair of monoliths in your room, which reflects in negative WAF factor in our small living room. Their sheer size and appearance has not won any awards in spite of good looking cabinets - in contrary - only critics and constant hammering why I ever built so big speakers in our small room!
Wish I had a separate man-cave room for myself only!
Actually, it boiled down to the point that I have to move or sell the speakers or...
I really didn't see this coming... it feels like a cold shower and it basically means that I have to sell speakers whether complete or in the parts or face never ending discussion!!!
Please don't understand this as that is something wrong with their sound, it's a pure bad luck that I need to live with it...
As I'm not going to advertise, If anybody has any interest, please e-mail me on my private e-mail address by clicking on my name... in the mean time I can take a closer look at the One Pi's as a new alternative...
I wish good luck to everybody and Happy New Year to you All!
Front row naked...
Left speaker...
and Right speaker...
]]>tubemax2017-12-28T21:13:25-00:00Re: New 3Pi build
https://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.phpindex.php?t=rview&goto=86910&th=21487#msg_86910
Now that they are 100% finished, just a few more pictures in the winter day-light before they are gone...