| Stage 4Pi improvement [message #49007] |
Sat, 04 March 2006 10:39  |
LAL
Messages: 40
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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I have never been satisfied with some aspects of the Stage 4Pi performance. The dynamic range and "big" sound the speakers produce was their saving grace. The bass on mine was too boomy and woofer's frequency response gave vocals,both male and female an unnatural sound. There was never the sensation that the singer was in the room with you like good quality speakers can produce. On the other hand percussion and brass did have a dynamic quality that regular speakers couldn't produce. These qualities, both good and bad, were evident in various rooms and consequently were not room dependant(although the room and speaker placement still affected the sound). As a result I used the speakers primarily for background music and instrumentals. I have another system available to me which I used for "serious" listening.
My cabinets were constructed according to the basic plan for Stage 4's out of 3/4 baltic birch. They are well braced and lined bottom, back and one side with fiberglass. The unlined side was covered with Northcreek "Glop", a mixture of a softglue and drywall mud, used to dampen cabinet wall vibrations. I am a fairly experienced speaker cabinet maker and usually go the nth degree to produce a stiff well damped cabinet. Normally I use a constrained layer walls but certain design constraints required that I limit the Stage 4's to 3/4" thickness. I have never been satisfied with my Stage 4 cabinets. They radiated too much sound from the 15" woofer. I have also suspected that the use of the fiberglass to partially line the walls was insufficient to damped the back wave of the 15" woofer. So I finally decided to do something about it.
A couple of days ago I got some "Sonic Barrier" damping material from Parts Express. This is 1 1/4" thick multi layer dampening foam with a 1 lb vinyl barrier. It has an adhesive backing. I removed the existing fiberglass and then covered the bottom, top, back and sides(except the area on one side where the crossover board is attached)with the Sonic Barrier. Since it is charcoaled color it can be place on the wall behind the vent without being noticable. I then took about 1/3 of the fiberglass originally in the cabinet and used it to cover crossover and I place some directly behind the woofer, with alittle more on the bottom. After reinstalling the drivers I sat down for a listen.
The results were stunning. The response had smoothed out. The sound was much clearer. Voices now had a natural sound and on good cd's the performers sounded realistic and had that "in the room" quality that was so lacking before. Everything about this speaker is much better now. Had I not known what was done I honestly would not have recognized the sound as coming from the same speaker. I have listened for extended periods of time with no hint of listening fatique. Five sheets of the Sonic Barrier and about 4 hours of my time have absolutely transformed these speakers. I hoped for some improvement but never could have predicted the changes in clarity, smoothness and lack of distortion I am now hearing.
Maybe others are completely satisfied with their Stage 4's or my cabinets for some reason sounded differently than others, but if you are interested to see if you can improve your speakers get 5 sheets of the 1 1/4 Sonic Barrier and spend a few hours lining your cabinets, throw in a little fiberglass directly behind the woofer and see what happens. If it doesn't work for you all you will be out is about $125.00 and some time. If it turns out anything like it did for me you will be greatly rewarded. (Incidently so you will know my frame of reference for how a speaker should sound, my primary system used VMPS RM40's with AVA hybred electronics). I know audiophiles are sometimes prone to exaggerate attributing great differences in performance to difference between amps or cables. This is most assuredly not the case with the transformation of my Stage 4's. This has been a major league improvement and couldn't be more pleased about. I hope this post may help someone else make a similar improvement to their speakers and as a result to their listening enjoyment.
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| Re: No offense, Matts, but [message #49016 is a reply to message #49015] |
Sun, 05 March 2006 12:32  |
Bill Epstein
Messages: 1088
Registered: May 2009
Location: Smoky Mts. USA
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Illuminati (2nd Degree) |
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I'm bothered by what many consider a perfectly reasonable suspicion of invidious commercial interest.
It's reached a point where every post praising something has to have a disclaimer. "I have no connection with or derive no benefit from..."
Why?
Consider this: If the positive comments concern a new product, or at least new to me, I'm happy the Internet gave me the opportunity to expand my awareness. If the opinion is that of a conscienceless salesman or someone with imperfect knowledge of the product, in either case, I trust my own ability to discover the truth. Quite often, I think, the poster might have valuable information coincident with a commercial interest.
The problem with Audiophiles is the same as with present-day society, everyone's afraid of everyone else!
With the exception of 'falsely crying FIRE! in a crowded theatre' I want my freedom of speech. And I want you to have yours.
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| Re: No offense, Matts, but [message #49017 is a reply to message #49016] |
Sun, 05 March 2006 13:06 |
Matts
Messages: 359
Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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"I'm bothered by what many consider a perfectly reasonable suspicion of invidious commercial interest." ...."I want my freedom of speech. And I want you to have yours." Chill out & don't be bothered, then! The reason I asked here, which is a firstl for me, is because the post seemed to follow a formula that I've seen in a lot of promotional lit on the web of 1)seriously overstating a problem I didn't see, then 2) leading through the dark valley, then 3) the "Eureka!" moment, then 4)the spend this pittance of an amount of $$ on this product and you'll be saved!! Here, even if there had been a disclaimer, I still would have wondered, but maybe it's just his style & it's fine with me. I've had so many people tell me singers (or sax players, etc.) sound like they are right in the living room with us, that I just don't see this issue- but, if you or Wayne tries this stuff out & also say it's the bomb, I'll try it too!
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| Re: No offense, Matts, but [message #49020 is a reply to message #49017] |
Sun, 05 March 2006 18:54 |
Bill Epstein
Messages: 1088
Registered: May 2009
Location: Smoky Mts. USA
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Illuminati (2nd Degree) |
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"Chill-out"? I'm very relaxed towards LAL's post. Whether or not he has a commercial interest in the product isn't an issue for me. I don't believe he does. And what of a "disclaimer"? I have no use for "disclaimers". If we're questioning the integrity of a poster why believe a disclaimer?
We're also looking at a product that has information available beyond what LAL has told us. If, in this case, or any other I would be informed by the post, warmed by the description of the improvement and then decide for my self whether to pursue an investment.
The I.D. of the "profile" of the promotional post is something I wouldn't have thought of but is interesting. It does follow that plan, doesn't it? But then so does the legitimate tableau of discovering a problem and finding a solution.
My problem is that we have arrived at a time when: if you work for an American Corporation you are required to check your Bill Of Rights at the door; everyone has to be respectful of whatever any group other than white-american-born-males says or does no matter how outlandish or obscene; cleverness is cause for immediate termination; all of us have become needlesly paranoid and suspicious of everyone else' motives.
And we're nearly all too fat!
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| Re: No offense, Matts, but [message #49021 is a reply to message #49019] |
Sun, 05 March 2006 19:44 |
LAL
Messages: 40
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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All right guys you caught me, I confess, I am the major stockholder in the company that produces Sonic Barrier. A couple of years ago I hatched a plan to increase the value of my stock holdings. I decided to purchase a Stage 4 Pi from Wayne, wait a couple of years then post on this forum how the cabinet performance could be improved by using Sonic Barrier. I thought if I could just seduce about 10 readers here each to buy around $120.00 worth of the product, that $1,200.00 of retail sales would net the company around $300.00 profit and consequently make my holdings that much more valuable, which in turn I could then sell and retire. I should have known someone would find me out. Rats, foiled again. I guess what did me in was trying to state the problem, show the process of working out a possible solution and the results of its implimentation. Oh well, maybe I should try it over on the Madisound forum, who knows I just might pick up a few bucks there before anybody catches on.
LAL
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