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Re: 4 Pi Theater vs Stage vs Premium vs Thermionic [message #45220 is a reply to message #45217] Wed, 18 August 2004 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Hi Bill; When you compare the various models, and I know you have different types of amplifiers so it's a good all around exposure; the stage and premium, the premium uses the top end Eminence I believe.On the bottom end sound, can you describe a little what you hear if you don't mind. See I would like to start another project but I cannot determine which driver of the smaller cabinet sizes to use. It seems to me w/o having heard them that the JBL would most likely return the most bang for the buck in terms of resolution, sounding musical and reproducing low piano notes accurately as well as acoustic bass. I also wonder at the differences between the higher end Eminence drivers.
I realise that it's hard to describe sound but you seem to have a good way with description so I think it would be helpful, if you don't mind. I am convinced I understand what you mean by better bass I am just curious if there is a sonic signature from the different drivers. Thanks Much;J.R.( The Stage Three with the twelve inch driver; is that a little faster and will it push the bass notes well?)

Re: Is Pi for me [message #45221 is a reply to message #45218] Wed, 18 August 2004 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18691
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Here's the list of capacitors showing the amount of attenuation each provides.
Re: 4 Pi Theater vs Stage vs Premium vs Thermionic [message #45222 is a reply to message #45220] Wed, 18 August 2004 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

Hi JR.

The difference between the JBL and the Kilomax is a tough choice. Blind test, money no object. JBL will come out on top. Wayne has chosen well to make the JBL driver his top dog in the Pro series. It's an awe sum driver and very well respected, (and envied!)
As far as bang for the buck goes, I would have to toss my hat into the Kilomax ring. It is more bang for the buck. When you get into the 300+ per driver range. Getting what you pay for begins to have diminishing returns. I personally run JBL drivers. I like them. I pay almost retail for them too! I just dont use enough to be a contender in the pricing structure. ( I get TAD at better costing than JBL !) T^he Kilomax is a real tough driver to beat for the money. It sounds clean and deep with punctuality.

I have not used any Eminence Magnum drivers yet. These were made with many similar characteristics to other top low distortion drivers and I understand they sound great. I'm considering them for an upcoming project in fact. Also into the ring are older JBL drivers. I have heard some but with only limited use compared to some of the experts who have been in this circle for many more years than I. I hear tell the 2205 and 2225 have a softer suspension and are actually better for home use than the 2226. If you can find these at a good price I suggest a prompt purchase.

For the 3Pi which uses the 12" Delta LF. I have not used this driver in a 3Pi. I favor this drive very much and have used it quite often in my own designs. I like it better than it's 15" big brother Delta 15. The Omega 15 will outperform the delta 12 in my book and the Kilomax still on the top of the pile. Two delta 12LF or a pair of magnum 12's might be something out of this world.

If you have a budget to stay in. The Kilomax will absolutely not let you down. It's just tremendous. If you can pony up for a JBL, They have the Name, the Performance, the Sound, the Quality and, the, Resale value.

I just want to say one more thing in this long winded..... Get what your comfortable buying. They all sound great. There isn't any point in overextending yourself to reach the next level. Get a kit. Work out a design. Have some fun building a project and save a few bucks doing it. Sit back and relax while you listen to things you never heard in music before. It's all about the speaker....

Bill

Re: Is Pi for me [message #45223 is a reply to message #45221] Thu, 19 August 2004 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oscarl is currently offline  Oscarl
Messages: 20
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Thanks Wayne,

I will be testing the speakers soon, so I hope I don't need to change it.

Re: 4 Pi Theater vs Stage vs Premium vs Thermionic [message #45224 is a reply to message #45222] Thu, 19 August 2004 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James W. Johnson is currently offline  James W. Johnson
Messages: 199
Registered: May 2009
Master
I am not sure about the 12"ers but on paper the Omegapro 15" driver has a considerably flatter response to 1000Hz than the Kilomax 15" driver. The Kilomax has a pretty nasty dip that starts at 500Hz.

I love the Stage 4 Pis , no puny 6" midrange speaker could ever hope to deliver what these speakers bring to my ears.
I recently picked up a Parasound HCA-2003 to power them and the combination is unreal. The speakers have litterally brought tears to my eyes with their lovely sound.


http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/media/speakpro02/graphs/om15.gif

http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/media/speakpro02/graphs/k15.gif

Re: 4 Pi Theater vs Stage vs Premium vs Thermionic [message #45225 is a reply to message #45222] Thu, 19 August 2004 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Thanks Bill, that was an excellent post and very helpful. In response I will say only that I love my Pi 4's and the reason I am looking is I would like to build something and smaller box seems a good idea. The Kilomax looks to be the right choice only because I have to continue to save for those Martinelli special horns. J.R.

Re: Is Pi for me [message #45226 is a reply to message #45193] Thu, 19 August 2004 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LAL is currently offline  LAL
Messages: 40
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Chad,
For my music only system I have VMPS RM40's. These are an absolute top of the line floor standing speaker . For my home theater system I have bookshelf speakers from GR Research. Very nice speakers also. I just completed the Stage 4 Pi's about a month ago. These were my first venture into high efficiency horn speakers. I have to say that I am impressed. No, they are not in the same league with the much more expensive RM40's and they may lack the smoothness of the GR Reseach speakers but they are nonetheless a heck of alot of fun to listen to. They have a great dynamic range and room filling sound that is reminiscent of the real thing. They would be very hard to beat for the price as a combination music/home theater speaker. There is really no comparison between one of these as a center channel speaker and a small bookshelf type. Three of the Stage 4 Pi's across the front would be a truly awesome sound. You might even get by with two of these and no center channel speaker. I am considering something like this myself now(the ones I built are now in my basement rec room). I sincerely doubt you will be sorry if you chose to build the Stage 4 Pi's.

Re: Is Pi for me [message #45227 is a reply to message #45223] Thu, 19 August 2004 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18691
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I don't think you'll need attenuation for the tweeter. If a person wants to attenuate a KSN1038 tweeter for whatever reason, the chart tells you what capacitor values to use for various amounts of attenuation. But a cap isn't normally used on one π or two π speakers.


Re: 4 Pi Theater vs Stage vs Premium vs Thermionic [message #45250 is a reply to message #45222] Mon, 23 August 2004 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crazy Dave is currently offline  Crazy Dave
Messages: 67
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Hi Bill,

Any thoughts on the Eminence Deltalite drivers? They certainly look good on paper!

With regard to the 2226. How does it do when playing at low volumes?

Dave

Re: 4 Pi Theater vs Stage vs Premium vs Thermionic [message #45251 is a reply to message #45250] Mon, 23 August 2004 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

Hi Dave,

I agree that the Deltalites look very good. I have been told that the Magnum series could sound better in reality though.
I haven’t done anything with the Deltalites yet, though I would like to because I'm a big fan of all the neo magnet drivers and I especially like the lighter weight. A 12" Deltalites weighs 1/3 the 12" Magnum.

The 2226 is a tight driver but personally I have no issue with it at low volumes. Maybe one of the 22xx with a softer suspension would be ideal or optimum. The 2226 is a great all around piece for me. There’s lots of good used 22xx drivers out there and I'm always happy to own or build with any of them.

I run 2226G which is the 4 ohm model. I like the 4 ohm cone driver with 8ohm compression drivers for keeping the total sensitivity higher.

Bill


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