| Theater Pi 4 bass response [message #41756] |
Mon, 30 June 2003 16:20  |
Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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I built my Theater 4 Pi's almost a year ago. I really like their sound but the bass has always been less than I want. The only changes I made to the design, was to use Acousta Foam from Parts Express rather than fiber-glass and I didn't stop at doing only three sides. I did all sides except the front where the drivers are mounted using the 1.5" foam. At first I did only the three sides, but after listening some and not finding the clearity in the mid-range, I padded the other 2 sides. They are now very nice in the midrange and highs, but I would like more bass. I've got some powered sub-woofers hooked up now, but they don't always sound right... a little sloppy sounding sometimes. I also have rebuilt the crossover using an Alpha Core flat wire inductor (same guage wire as original) in series with the woofer and Auricaps for the tweeter.I don't have an SPL meter, but the bass seems much less than the Bottlehead Straight 8's. Have I done something wrong ? Tom
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| Re: Theater Pi 4 bass response [message #41758 is a reply to message #41757] |
Mon, 30 June 2003 17:50  |
mikebake
Messages: 243
Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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I would agree, and perhaps interchange 1 and 2. The room is SO much of every system equation. Bill, did you read Rod Elliots article Wayne linked?
A quote from the end of the article............
"Human hearing is very adept at picking the original sound from the reverberant field, provided the early reflections are not so early that they influence the direct sound. Given the highly reverberant listening rooms of some people, I have difficulty understanding how that can even tell what anything really sounds like - yet they will happily espouse their theories on what makes the sound better, ignoring the fact that their room will destroy the sound of any loudspeaker.Finally, the quality of much of the recorded material available is absolutely woeful. Equalised to within an inch of its life (so it will sound "good" on crappy systems), compressed, "aurally excited" (ptooey!), and generally mangled beyond all recognition. To be sure, quality recordings are available, but are they available from your favourite artist(s)? Usually not, so you either have to change your musical tastes to experience a decent recording, or put up with the rubbish that is often the only version of the artist/ song available. I have so many CDs and vinyl recordings that I find unlistenable on a decent system that it's not funny - for one CD, I have to switch off my subwoofer, or all my windows will fall" BTW, dude, what have you been up to? Latest project??
MBB
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| Re: Theater Pi 4 bass response [message #41765 is a reply to message #41761] |
Tue, 01 July 2003 06:59 |
Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Hi Wayne,
Thanks for your JBL 2245 suggestion. Is there a little cheaper Eminance alternative ? Or can used 2245's be found. Also, the Pi 4's already take up alot of room, so I'd like as small a solution as possible. Right now I'm using a pair of powered 10" subwoofers that go under my BESL series 5 monitors (Bamberg engineering sound labs).
Not bad sounding but alittle sloppy sometimes. And yes, I've corrected the tweeter crossover circuit. I forgot, it's been awhile. My Pi 4 and Parabee combo sounds wonderful and keeps sounding better as things breakin. Tom
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| Re: Theater Pi 4 bass response [message #41766 is a reply to message #41756] |
Tue, 01 July 2003 07:22 |
jtsjf
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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Neo,
Similarly, I thought the highs were a bit too much on my Theater 4pis after I put them together. I just replaced one of the resistors in the tweeter circuit with a higher value, and that, as they say, was that. Now they are just about perfect...for my room...for my amps...etc..etc... So, could it be that the speakers are too bright, instead of lacking in bass?Cheers,
Jason
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| Re: Theater Pi 4 bass response [message #41768 is a reply to message #41766] |
Tue, 01 July 2003 10:02 |
Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Jason, Thanks for the input...
The highs and mids seems good to very-good... On some stuff it seems like there could be more shimmer to cymbals and more snar to the snar drum, but vocals are right-on. The bass on classical is 'okay', but on some rock like Pink Floyd and some Blues stuff like Buddy Guy where strong bass is a fundemental part of the experiance - I want more bass. Tom
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| Just curious... [message #41770 is a reply to message #41766] |
Tue, 01 July 2003 12:44 |
Garland
Messages: 269
Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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...what resistor did you swap out and what value went in? I think Neo's problem is probably room related but the balance of freq. responce is vital to the enjoyment of music. If rock is your thing and the system doesn't do it right you know it!!! I tried adding a bit of inductance to the woofer's crossover and got what I thought was a pleasing balance of tone only to find after a while that the music was dulled and lacked some excitement. Out came the added coil and the music came back alive. Anyway, in my room the Theater 4's can be a bit too much on some recordings, sounding bright and in your face. Other recordings of similar music sound perfect! G.
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| Re: Theater Pi 4 bass response [message #41772 is a reply to message #41768] |
Tue, 01 July 2003 13:04 |
jtsjf
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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Tom,
When I increased the resistor value on the tweeter (I don't remember the exact values- I think I replaced a 10R with a 50R...), it didin't change the sound much, just increased the bass relative to the tweeter. So, if you're not happy with the upper frequencies- the shimmer to the cymbals, etc. it may not be worth your time.
On a heavier note, the song I like to listen to for bass is 'Flight of the Cosmic Hippo' by Bela Fleck. LOL, now that's some bass.
I've never heard the straight eights, so I'm kind of speaking in a vacuum here.Good Luck,
Jason
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| 'Flight of the Cosmic Hippo' ... I gotta try that [message #41776 is a reply to message #41772] |
Tue, 01 July 2003 17:27 |
Neo
Messages: 33
Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Thanks Jason. Always open for good music suggestions. When I put my ear close to the tweeter and then the woofer, the tweeter definitely effects way above what I think of as the 'mid-range'. I found the high-end of the woofer range 1000-1600 cps to be more than I like so I did what I just read Garland did... I've added .5mh in series with the woofer inductor. For me it fixed the 'problem'. According to my ear doctor, my hearing drops off sharply after 3000 cps. And looking at the graph he drew, I was most sensitive around 1500-2000 cps. These are very rough charts I think, but it seems confirm what sounds best to me with the changes I made. My current subwoofers sound damn good. I'm gonna go listen some more. See ya,
Tom
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