Question for Till E and or Wayne; What next? [message #38405] |
Mon, 23 September 2002 09:56 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Garland
Messages: 269 Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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Hi Bill, I'm beginning to itch a little for the smell of sawdust and solder. I think you've compared the Theater 4's with Professional 4's w/ JBL's. Did the JBL system work with your Paramours? I'm looking for a bit more of everything, particularly in the resolution department but don't want to loose too much dynamics with the loss of efficiency. Any ideas? I need to keep the boxes no larger than the Theater 4's. Thanks, Garland
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New fun things! [message #38407 is a reply to message #38405] |
Mon, 23 September 2002 11:04 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18753 Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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My vote is for these systems: 1. Professional Series seven π if you've got the corners, four π if not. 2. Stage Series seven π if you've got the corners, four π if not. 3. A pair of subwoofers, to smooth room modes. Any of those would be a great next step: Each is sure to please!
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Re: Question for Till E and or Wayne; What next? [message #38411 is a reply to message #38405] |
Mon, 23 September 2002 14:02 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Rider
Messages: 43 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Hi Garland.The question to ask yourself at this point is are the speakers the weak link in the food chain? What are you using as amp/amps, pre-amps, etc. I've found the Pi 7's I have change the sound RADICALLY depending on amp/ pre-amp/ crossover arrangement. What you may want is NOT more sawdust and solder. I've got this little 40 watt Luxman that defines bass notes like nothing else I've tried. If I hook up a similar wattage Harmon Kardon amp things go BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, and you really have to work at finding the music. Your more of everything is not likely to be speaker related if you have a nice set of 4 Pi's attached. Good luck on what ever you try. I noticed your size restrictions. Pi 7's are probably bigger than you want to go. Grant.
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Re: Question for Till E and or Wayne; What next? [message #38412 is a reply to message #38411] |
Mon, 23 September 2002 15:13 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Garland
Messages: 269 Registered: May 2009
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Grand Master |
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That's good advice, Grant! The reason I was asking Till E. is that he has the same amps as I (Bottlehead "Paramour" 2A3 tube monoblocks) and was wondering if the "better" JBL drivers were usable with our amps. I wish that I could go all out and build a full horn loaded system but my 12x18 room says no go! G.
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Re: Question for Till E and or Wayne; What next? [message #38413 is a reply to message #38412] |
Mon, 23 September 2002 15:42 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
Rider
Messages: 43 Registered: May 2009
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Baron |
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Hi again Garland.My 13' 4" by 23 room says what a fine arrangement with the Pi 7s. I have the Pi's on the short wall on one end, a pool table in the middle, and a couple chairs on the far end. I'm sure it's not acoustical heaven but it'll have to do. There's a wood stove between the Pi's and I swear it sings the sweetest tunes late at night, lights out, with a nice fire going in the middle of winter. Grant.
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Re: Question for Till E and or Wayne; What next? [message #38416 is a reply to message #38405] |
Mon, 23 September 2002 19:21 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
BillEpstein
Messages: 886 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (2nd Degree) |
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Rider gets me thinking, Hi!, Rider; get's me thinking it's time I tried the 3677's with the 2246 woofers and the Paramours. The 2Pi's are the dress rehearsal for the (fill in the blank)____4,____7,_____10 Pro's with an all out assault on the living room/patio cabinet makers craft. I'm still learning how to create with tools in boxes and a workmate instead of a great big 3" thick scandinavian bench with shoulder and screw vises and all the goodies. Let alone the Unisaw with the 50" Biesemeyer. I know the Pro motor line-up won't be heaven with the 'Mours but here in the apartment I can't listen very loud anyway. I do recall posting, and it's true that the 3677's with the woofs out of the 4648's were more "accurate", more "there", "cleaner" sounding than the Eminence boys. But just for Garland, tomorrow I will shlep the 3677's out of the spare rom and hook them up to the 'Mours. A sneak preview for when I finally remove the components from those JBL boxes and build the whatevers. Garland, I think as I re-build the right channel Paramour to match the left I will add the BCP-15 choke. Good idea, yes? Goldernit, this is big fun!
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Re: New fun things! [message #38421 is a reply to message #38407] |
Tue, 24 September 2002 01:42 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
vladimir4
Messages: 22 Registered: May 2009
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Chancellor |
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Hi, I'd like to ask one question on 2226 7Pi/4Pi. I've already build 2Pi & 2Pi tower great price/performance dessigns, thanks Wayne :-) Currently I have "hard time" to decide on the next project. I'm looking for more details, more presence bigger sound and deeper bass. I like the world of high efficiency and haven't constraints on enclosure volume so I wouldn't go back to consumer hifi. My understanding is that theater 4Pi will meet those requirements, and that the professional 2226-version will add even more details and naturalness. However, If I remember correctly, I've read that 2226 need at least 10W to fully express its qualities. My preference is to have details and full expression at moderate levels, I certainly want no play 97+dB speakers at 10W at my home :-) (My power amp gain is of 22k/680 = 33, can deliver 50W/8Ohm, and my attenuator is set to 1k/33k = 1/33, so I listen to no voltage amplified output from CD player ???).Is thermionic or theater 4pi better option for my use, or is 2226 better sonically even if no played loud, say at ~1W ? TIA, vladimir
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Re: New fun things! [message #38422 is a reply to message #38421] |
Tue, 24 September 2002 02:29 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18753 Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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To me, the biggest difference between the two π speakers and the four π or seven π models is the size of the premium listening spot. Almost as big an issue is the clarity and detail, which are naturally better on the top-of-the-line models. Two π towers sound nice and full, and I really like them. Bass is more than adequate, but not overpowering. Mids and treble are clean and balanced. But the best listening spot is straight on-axis with both speakers, and while the off-axis response isn't bad, it isn't nearly as good as the four π or seven π loudspeakers. Those are designed for uniform directivity over a large 90x40 pattern. A properly setup four π or seven π loudspeaker provides natural sound almost everywhere in the room. Not only is the tonal character balanced, but stereo imaging is too. This is not an easy feat, and requires a handful of conditions to be met. Speakers must provide uniforn directivity and must be positioned so their forward axis crosses in front opf the listener. This is the natural position of seven π cornerhorns, so the required conditions are met automatically for the owner of these loudspeakers. No models of π Speakers require very much power, they're all very efficient. Some have less impedance fluxuations than others, so SET owners with outputs that are sensitive to load impedance might want to pay attention to Zmax. However, I think that the four π and seven π speakers with JBL 2226 are pretty easy for just about any SET amp to drive.
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Yo, Garland and thrill-seekers everywhere... [message #38434 is a reply to message #38405] |
Tue, 24 September 2002 16:48 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to previous message](/forum/theme/AudioRoundTable/images/down.png) |
BillEpstein
Messages: 886 Registered: May 2009
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Illuminati (2nd Degree) |
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Just for you I drove the old lady next door out of her apartment. The Paramours wouldn't drive the JBL's really loud but enough that her car was gone after a few minutes of Steely Dan and Moussorgsky and she never goes out! Maybe 90dB and then it started spitting. But It was a decidedly different flavor from the 4 Pi's. Mind you these are 2226J's in the 4.5cu. ft. 3677S cabinet with the 3677 horn (2618?). I would say that the sound is a little brighter, a tad more detailed and maybe a little less of a "lush" than the His Eminence. Somebody needs to climb in here and tell all about their Pro 7's.
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