Home » Sponsored » Pi Speakers » Wayne, comment on Delta lower mid-range?
Wayne, comment on Delta lower mid-range? [message #35311] Mon, 04 March 2002 17:32 Go to next message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I've said from the start that the only nit I could pick with the theatres is something in the lower mids. And I think I've got a handle on it.
Been tube rolling and modifying the Foreplay and Paramours and they're now really clean. What a synergy betweent SET's and Pi's!

But where there are discrete notes, as in classical guitar, the octave from about middle "C", 360 to 622Hz seems 'muffled' somehow.
There is the same distinct sound of finger on string heard above and below but the 'ring' is missing.

I no longer have my freq. resp. graph that came with the Deltas.
Is there a dip there?
If so, some way to compensate?
Will the Theatre Pros improve on this?
Am I deaf in the mid-range?

Fours and Paramours [message #35313 is a reply to message #35311] Mon, 04 March 2002 22:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18792
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
There are many things that can cause problems in the 100Hz to 500Hz range. The obvious one is the midwoofer, but it is more often caused by internal cabinet standing wave resonances. Floor bounce usually occurs in the range too, although I wouldn't expect it in this case.

Honestly, I don't hear any problems in this range from Theater Series four π Speakers. The truth is that I've been building and shipping a lot of these lately, so I have many chances to listen to them at various volume levels and with many different kinds of music. Just the other day, I listened to Rick Wakeman pound the keys on the song Awaken, and the album, "The six wives of Henry VIII" on Theater fours. Awesome! Certainly no weakness in the octave above or below middle C to my ears. Very pure and strong there, to tell the truth, but not peaky or overpowering.

I've listened to 'em at length with music from Beethoven to hard rock like Limp Bizkit and Tool, from Sarah McLachlan's pure voice to Roy Orbison's, the Stray Cats 50's style stand up bass to Steve Howe on acoustic guitar in the 70's art-rock band, Yes. Recently, I even cranked up a pair to full power and watched the movie Matrix, start to finish. That's a treat that will bring beads of sweat to your forehead from emotional energy!

Here's the response graph of the Delta 15:


Delta 15 frequency response; Used in Theater Series four π Speaker

As you can see, there is no dip in the midrange response of this speaker. From 100Hz to 800Hz, they're ruler flat. And if you have wired in the crossover circuit as shown, I don't think you are having problems with an underdamped filter or anything like that. The crossover is pretty well thought out, and the cabinet configuration is not one that is vulnerable to midrange anomalies so I expect your system's performance is probably pretty good.

You might check your cabinet, make sure it is well braced, so no panel vibration. And also make sure you have insulation as described in the plans. If you've tried alternate forms of insulation material like some do, try going with the R11 on the back, side and bottom. Put a sheet across the cross-section brace. This damps standing waves very well but without it, you might have some problems.

Re: Wayne, comment on Delta lower mid-range? [message #35315 is a reply to message #35311] Tue, 05 March 2002 05:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rider is currently offline  Rider
Messages: 43
Registered: May 2009
Baron

Hi Till E.

I'm running Pi 7's at home and have a weak mid/treble.

I figure it's because I'm not using a standard horn on the tweeter. Are you using standard components all over, or are there some places where you've "optimized" things? (not that any of us would ever do something like that... ;->)

In my case I'm looking to back towards the "normal" horns soon.


Grant.

Re: Wayne, comment on Delta lower mid-range? [message #35316 is a reply to message #35315] Tue, 05 March 2002 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam is currently offline  Adam
Messages: 419
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Do you have a pic of those? I've never seen a real life one of any of Wayne's corner horns.

message to Wayne: You should replace your computer renderings with some real images of all of your speakers. I think it would help peopel get an idea of what your speakers are like. Maybe show some pictures of them in setting in a listening room and/or in a P.A. application.

Adam

Re: Fours and Paramours [message #35317 is a reply to message #35313] Tue, 05 March 2002 06:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TOttman2 is currently offline  TOttman2
Messages: 11
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
You're right Wayne, there are other people with Paramours interested in Theater Series four Pi Speakers. How can I get a set of plans for these speakers ? I'd like to build a set. Can you send me the plans ? email: thomas.ottman.ii@snet.net I'm willing to pay for them if there's a charge.

Also, the drivers are listed on the Pi website, but where can I get the horn ?

Thanks alot...
Tom Ottman
Berlin, Ct

about the horns... [message #35318 is a reply to message #35317] Tue, 05 March 2002 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trancemitr is currently offline  trancemitr
Messages: 74
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
What I would do is check out the Peavey website to find your local Peavey dealers. They'll probably have to order the CH-3s for you. They'll run you about $35-40 a piece. Have fun putting everything together. I've got everything cut out and waiting for me to get the nerve to "screw and glue". Take care.

Kevin

Re: about the horns... [message #35319 is a reply to message #35318] Tue, 05 March 2002 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TOttman2 is currently offline  TOttman2
Messages: 11
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Kevin,

Thanks for the Peavey Horn info.

Did you get your plans from Wayne ? Or did you design the cabinet yourself?

Tom

You have mail [message #35320 is a reply to message #35317] Tue, 05 March 2002 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18792
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Cornerhorn pics [message #35321 is a reply to message #35316] Tue, 05 March 2002 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18792
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
There are a handful of photos here: PiSpeakers.com/photos
Re: Wayne, comment on Delta lower mid-range? [message #35322 is a reply to message #35315] Tue, 05 March 2002 13:56 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18792
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Seems like I remember you saying you were one of the people who chose to use the Eminence H395 horn. Is that true? I think if you'll swap that horn with a Peavey CH-3 or JBL 2370, you'll like the sound much better. The H395 was never one of my favorite horns.
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