Home » Audio » Group Build » Group Build Line Array Project
Group Build Line Array Project [message #32062] Thu, 12 October 2006 15:41 Go to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Everybody I know who has heard a good line array playing at a room filling level has been impressed by the power and majesty of the sound. The Absolute Sound reviewers were so overcome by the Epiphany 12/12 they bowed in reverence. Then you look at the $,$$$ or $$,$$$ price tag and realize a pair of line arrays in your listening room is about as likely as a new Mercedes S-series in your driveway and a two carat diamond on the Mrs' finger. Or maybe not.

Wayne and I are cooking up plans for a group build line array project. We haven't drawn the plans yet, but we have agreed on some general guidelines. These are oriented toward the objective of designing an array that's easy to build, very affordable, tube friendly, uses readily available drivers (no "buyouts" that won't be available later), reasonably sized, and sounds good. Here are the specifics:

Easy to build - can be built by a person with no previous woodworking experience using a circular saw, a jigsaw and an electric drill.

Very affordable - Target cost to build is $300-$400. This will require the use of inexpensive midwoofers (but better than NSB quality) and a single point source tweeter at the center of the array. (The single tweeter is a compromise, but it's the only option with our target price). The target price also requires that each enclosure can be built from a single 4X8 sheet of mdf or plywood.

Tube friendly - Eight ohm or higher nominal impedance, 94dB or greater sensitivity.

Readily available drivers - We've already decided on the midwoofers because the Parts Express 5-1/4" classic is on sale for $11, and I ordered a bunch of them. We're leaning toward the Vifa DX25 tweeter because it's one of the few that will cross over low enough and has the needed sensitivity.

Reasonably sized - Not too much over 5' high with a reasonably narrow baffle. Line arrays can't be Bose size, but no 7' monsters either.

Sounds good - Of course that's very subjective, but the sound quality should be comparable to or better than some of the single woofer two-way's others have built using PE classic and similar quality drivers and good crossover parts - much better than most of the speakers at the big box stores. We're also planning to use a ported enclosure whose bass extension will make a subwoofer unnecessary/optional.

The plan is for me to build the enclosures, install the drivers, and get them to Wayne, who will do the final tuning and design the crossover. I plan to document the enclosure construction on my smugmug photo site for others to use in building their arrays.

I've already chosen the Parts Express #295-301 midwoofers based on size and cost limitations. They're regularly $13.60 in quantities of four, currently on sale for $11.00, and we hope to negotiate that sale price for others who participate in the group build. I plan to use eight per speaker to achieve the needed sensitivity, 16 ohm impedance, and reasonably small interior volume.

Comments and suggestions about any other aspects of this project are welcomed. Now's the time before I start pushing wood throught the saw in November.


Re: Group Build Line Array Project [message #32063 is a reply to message #32062] Thu, 12 October 2006 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
Messages: 1117
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Very Cool!

I about passed out when I heard Jim's arrays at GPAF last year. I'd never heard line arrays before. You're right about the $$$ though for a setup like he had. But just to get a little inkling of that would be special. I'll have to start pushing this agenda and see how far I get with the Mrs.

Re: Group Build Line Array Project [message #32064 is a reply to message #32063] Fri, 13 October 2006 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
The Jim Griffin line arrays at last year's GPAF were special. Choosing between these arrays and very expensive conventional speakers, like the Wilson Watt Puppies I heard recently, would be a no brainer to me. I believe Jim's were priced at about $8K with the DEQX electronics, but they would sell for more like $20K if offered by a mainstream speaker manufacturer. An incredible bargain at $8K but still outside my budget.

Needless to say, the group build arrays will not be in the same league as Jim's, but their sound should offer many of the characteristics of well designed line arrays. I've built a few using budget drivers, including $25 Vifa woofers and $15 Silver Flute woofers, with a point source tweeter, and have been pleased with the results. The pair that comes closest to the design Wayne and I are considering used 5.5" Silver Flute woofers with the Vifa DX25 tweeter, and to my ears it sounded the best of all. I might have chosen the Silver Flutes for the group build, but they were $11.75 last time I bought some and the price has since increased quite a bit. Also, I have had such good experience buying from Parts Express that I wanted to use their Dayton house brand this time. See the link to a picture below.

We plan to build and tweak the prototype pair, then to get some feedback from a group of qualified listeners who know how a good speaker should sound. Probably the Tulsa and or Dallas Audio Club members. If the feedback is positive we'll document and post the project.


Re: Group Build Line Array Project [message #32065 is a reply to message #32062] Fri, 13 October 2006 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
I'm game. I live one exit from PE; so, if there is anything I can do to help, let me know....C

Re: Group Build Line Array Project [message #32066 is a reply to message #32065] Sat, 14 October 2006 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18669
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Perfect. We'll probably tap you on the shoulder to ask them for a deal. In fact, if you don't mind, maybe you could approach them about it in advance. I'll try to remember to call and talk to Darren Kuzma as well. I would hope PE would at least give wholesale pricing.


Re: Group Build Line Array Project [message #32067 is a reply to message #32066] Sat, 14 October 2006 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Darren has moved on to greener pastures outside the audio industry. I have no idea who replaced him.

Re: Group Build Line Array Project [message #32068 is a reply to message #32067] Sat, 14 October 2006 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18669
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'll speak to Scott Placke then. He's the wholesale manager. But I'd prefer that Colin speak to him face to face. I'll just tell Scott to expect Colin, and maybe get a feel for how PE stands on this sort of thing. It's not like ART will be making an organized purchase, but I think they'll probably be receptive to treating it like it were.


Re: Group Build Line Array Project [message #32071 is a reply to message #32062] Mon, 16 October 2006 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cfranz is currently offline  cfranz
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Count me in. I'm in severe need of a project that doesn't strain my eyes.

Been working on digital for a while. Small parts, soldering iron with a needle tip. Need lighted magnifier and reading glasses just to see where I'm soldering.

After we’re done, maybe we can talk to the boys in the Craftsman forum to add a little WAF to them. Make them living room worthy….


WAF [message #32072 is a reply to message #32071] Mon, 16 October 2006 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
That WAF issue is a tough one with speakers in general; with line arrays it's even tougher. But you are so right about good craftsmanship having the potential to raise the factor to a higher level. A nicely veneered and finished speaker enclosure is far more acceptable than one with a poor paint job, and an enclosure with radiused edges is more attractive than one with 90 degree angles.

The prototype will be built with an eye toward low cost and ease of construction rather than cosmetics, but other builder are encouraged to build speakers that are also nice to look at. Here's an example of a speaker that isn't a line array, but it's one of the most beautiful examples of fine craftsmanship I've seen.


Re: WAF [message #32073 is a reply to message #32072] Mon, 16 October 2006 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
cfranz is currently offline  cfranz
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
My wife is pretty darn understanding of my hobby but I try not to push her too far. My wood working skills are two steps up from beginner but 10 steps down from craftsman. I'm at the mitered edges with biscuits stage and I can use a round-over bit without embarrassing myself (usually) but not beyond that.

I was less asking about the 'beauty' of the project then suggesting that those of us who can, or wish to, take it the next step forward. This, assuming that we get a sonic result that is worthy of the living room.

Wish I could see the Salk HT3 but I'm at work and so much is blocked here. I'll check them out this evening.

Thanks for your response.


Previous Topic: Smith horns
Next Topic: AudioRoundTable Group Build Room?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Thu Mar 28 04:55:22 CDT 2024

Sponsoring Organizations

DIY Audio Projects
DIY Audio Projects
OddWatt Audio
OddWatt Audio
Pi Speakers
Pi Speakers
Prosound Shootout
Prosound Shootout
Smith & Larson Audio
Smith & Larson Audio
Tubes For Amps
TubesForAmps.com

Lone Star Audiofest