Home » Audio » Group Build » Merlin OPTx:group purchase organization
Merlin OPTx:group purchase organization [message #31361] Thu, 15 September 2005 14:47 Go to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey-Hey!!!,
As some of you have seen, I unwound a Peerless S-265-Q output, and had Heyboer in Michigan remake two modified copies.

Stuff I kept the same, including but not limited to:
Coil construction; number of layers, order of layers, direction of wind....
Wire gage
lamination size and stack thickenss

Critical additions:
Additional taps for use in my E-Linear circuit. Different tap % provides differnet tube performance and different level of plate-to-grid NFB. Current build specification is 20, 30, and 40% which puts it at the convenient end of layer( there are ten for each half ofthe anode winding ). It also eliminates the original 50% tap. No sense having too many tap wires hanging out.

Made some modern substitutions for the old Kraft paper and polyester insulating material.

In two at a time construction two years or so ago, they were ~$100 each.

Price offered in the +10 quantity is $86 each. Line forms here if you want to get in on even a single. No requirement to buy a pair. These are quite versatile units. 10k a-a load, to 2, 4, 8 and 16R secondary. They are to be wound by Heyboer in Michigan and shipping will be in addition to the $86 each price.

The original Peerless 20-20 series S-265 was rated at 40 watts and nothing has been done to interfere or chage this rating on my modified copy. Can you say PP 845? I knew you could. It will work as well as a PP 1619 delivering a half-dozen watts in PP Class A operation. Look to the Merlin schematic in the projects folder for a proven schematic for this OPTx.
cheers,
Douglas



in additon to other concerns..... [message #31362 is a reply to message #31361] Thu, 15 September 2005 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MQracing is currently offline  MQracing
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
is this an advertisement as defined by the ART rules?

Given the multiple posts advertising these transformers just over the last few days alone... and if you count back a year or so ago... he was hawking these same transformers here.

and that Doug alludes to the fact that he has had a long term relationship with this company.

and that the prices apparently are different in different forums and even in the same forum over a period of time.... i noticed that they keep coming down... soon, I suspect, if potential buyers held out long enough Doug might even pay them to take a pair.

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No product announcements, advertisements or unsolicited information regarding a professional service or product can be offered by a person related to the company offering the service or product in an open forum. This includes company employees and representatives, but is not limited to those. If a relationship is established between you and a company, professional, product or service beyond that of enthusiast, then you may not post unsolicited announcements about the company, professional, product or service of any sort.

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The things that are essentially being traded in many of these informal cooperative relationships are goodwill and credibility, things that have an actual value even though no money may have changed hands. These kinds of cooperative relationships are actually pretty common between certain individuals, dealers and manufacturers. We encourage your participation here, but please realize that these alliances can unfairly disadvantage others. We hope that you will share your views openly, but please be careful to refrain from the temptation to advertise.

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other concerns..... [message #31363 is a reply to message #31362] Thu, 15 September 2005 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
This offer to partake in the group purchase is not an ad which will benefit me in any way. My relationship with Heyboer is that of customer. They wind, I buy. The price mentioned is the price quoted. That I may be able to twist their arm with some convincing pleading to reduce the price a few dollars more is no indication of a more intertwined relationship than I claimed.

Full disclosure has been provided and in this case specified and afirmed in detail. I will say it again, this purchase is not going to benefit me anymore than it would further my relationship with MQ were he to jump in and offer to be the supplier.

I could show you the email exchanges *AFTER* recieving permission to publish or disclose, but why should one believe anything published with that cut and paste BS? I remind you that *YOU* did not recieve my permission to publish my private correspondence with you.

I can see how this relationship and published price would put you at a disadvantage, but it is not an unfair one. I even solicited a quote from you directly to support this project. You declined to modify for an unspecified reason( though you did *CLAIM* to have specified a reason....).
cheers,
Douglas

Re: in additon to other concerns..... [message #31364 is a reply to message #31362] Thu, 15 September 2005 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Please allow me to offer some small observations in this matter. I only take this liberty as I have been involved from the start and while that does not allow me any special priviledge it does give me some perspective.
When Doug first introduced the forum to the concept of buying as a group during the Guinevere pre-amp build he discussed offering the purchase to any outsourceing manufacturer avialable and willing to do one-off's. However he pointed out that Heybeor was one of the possible choices and in fact had done work in the past for several of the members of another forum.
While Doug may not be aware, this was considored as a possible breach of ethics by all concerned and discussed as such. The solution to this quandry was agreed upon by all the participants and that was that each member of the group; in order to take advantage of bulk purchase discount would call for themselves within a timeframe and discuss their own requirements with the manufacturer.
True; said requirements were proposed by Douglas; but we had several options available to us in terms of build specs and we were responsible for our own financial arrangements with Heyboer. We of course defined early on that while Heyboer had done work for Doug they had also done work for many others.
There are no marks on this site; the company was thoroughly investigated and the question of Doug's possible collusion or financial advantage was questioned at the time of purchase.
The bottom line is to our satisfaction he was clean. And the quality and price we obtained at any rate would really leave nothing for Heybeor to wiggle with.
Did Douglas get a better price than us? Who knows. I think he is an honest guy but regardless; for what I recieved and the price paid; I can't see any disengenousness.
Then there is the price quotes Heyboer offers. Those were accurate. I for one would have paid the retail price so for me it's a moot point.
Does the mention of Heyboer numerous times violate the spirit of the clause. Well this was a one-off that is not stock so there would be no other way of knowing it was avialable without the mention.
If Doug promoted those transformers over other similar brands I might be inclined to be more severe in my opinion; but he clearly states the level of quality is what it is; not the best, not the worst.
I would rather have something like what you do on your high end winding's; someday maybe I can afford them.

Re: in additon to other concerns..... [message #31368 is a reply to message #31362] Fri, 16 September 2005 02:04 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18678
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

This probably requires a long-winded answer, but I've passed my quota of long-winded answers for today.

The condensed version goes like this:

Self-promotion isn't allowed on ART, either in this forum or any of the other non-sponsored forums except the Swap Meet forum. Or the Dungeon, where anything goes that doesn't get us busted.

Shilling also isn't allowed, whether by sockpuppet or by someone in the real world. Money doesn't have to change hands to define the shill. Motivations for shilling are pretty varied. I've seen shills be dealers, people hoping for jobs, even people just wanting attention hanging on the short hairs of someone they think is an expert.

The thing about this particular forum is it encourages group purchases. It is an extension of the other forums in that a few designs are chosen to be built by everyone. Basically, if interest is consistently shown in other forums for a particular DIY design, someone might suggest a group build here. Or sometimes the regulars here suggest one, just because they're eager to do something new. Somebody throws out an idea, and if it catches hold, people build it and outline their progress here. Parts prices drop due to purchasing power in numbers and product support is good because of the number of same systems built.

It also gives this forum more chance that it could be exploited. That's why the moderator has agreed to watch it pretty closely and to orchestrate group purchases. That way the forum can't be hijacked by someone with a profit motive. I think the transformer Douglas is talking about is one that was discussed for a amplifier project called Merlin. I suppose the transformer could be sourced from you or Heyboer or ElectraPrint or Sowter, but I'm not sure.

Designs that are posted here are the property of their authors. By posting here, ART has license to display it but ART doesn't own it. So if someone champions a design and it becomes very popular, they are encouraged to open a sponsored forum of their own and to sell and support it there. But no advertisements are allowed in the Group Build forum, just like other open forums on ART.


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