Home » Audio » Craftsmen » Side-to-side or Back-to-front?
Side-to-side or Back-to-front? [message #29745] Thu, 04 May 2006 21:19 Go to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Veneer grain pattern on speaker top.
Grain pattern on front, back and sides are up and down.
Sides are wider than front/back panels.

Re: Side-to-side or Back-to-front? [message #29746 is a reply to message #29745] Fri, 05 May 2006 05:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Epstein is currently offline  Bill Epstein
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Location: Smoky Mts. USA
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After discussing this with Ing. Martinelli I beleive this is the convention:

But the other way avoids having to deal with a difficult cross-seam on the top:



Re: Side-to-side or Back-to-front? [message #29747 is a reply to message #29746] Mon, 08 May 2006 07:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
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But I've also seen Martinelli do it the other way too.

Lots of furniture have the grain running side-to-side, but furniture tends to be wider than they are deep. In my case, the speakers I'm building are deeper than they are wide. Guess the only way to decide is to slap it on.

Re: Side-to-side or Back-to-front? [message #29750 is a reply to message #29747] Fri, 12 May 2006 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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It's all for fun. If the cabinet has no grille then I like the method you posted where the front is matched up and over the top.

If the cabinet has a grille the I like something like on this design where the sides, top and bottom is on continuous match all around the cabinet

If you really have time on your hands then this design has a veneer match from front to sides, sides to top and front to top. it's one continuous layout.


Q. re: ironing on veneer [message #29753 is a reply to message #29750] Mon, 15 May 2006 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
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Bill, I re-read your page on the wrap-around project again and have a few questions on applying veneer.

What glue would you recommend for the iron-on method?
Also, when you apply glue on the veneer, how do you keep it from curling up?
How long should and could I wait after applying glue before ironing?

I recently veneered a pair of small cabinets and was very upset when the veneer bubbled back up several days later. I used Titebond I and spread it on the MDF with a scraper, careful to ensure a thin even coat. While the glue is still semi-wet, I ironed the veneer with the iron on high. A couple of hours later, I flooded the surface with boiled linseed.

I can think of several things I might have done wrong in the above description, but would appreciated your help to ID them.

Wrong type of glue?
Need glue on MDF and veneer?
Ironing too soon?
Iron too hot?
Not waiting over night before applying finish?

thx,
Gar.

Re: Q. re: ironing on veneer [message #29754 is a reply to message #29753] Mon, 15 May 2006 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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Hi Gar,

bummer the project had problems for you. I use tighbond all the time. 1 for veneer ironing and just about everything else. type 3 for waterproof stuff, never on veneer.

MY guess is not enought glue or the oil you put on. I like to put on a good coat and let it tack over. I dont wait for the glue to dry. some people wait. I use two coats of glue. Depending on the veneer the application varies.

For raw veneer I put one coat on the substrate, let is dry so you can touch it, then put another coat on top of it. you have a wild animal loose in your shop if you put something wet on raw veneer!

For paperbacked veneer. I put one coat on the substrate and one coat on the veneer. I have yet to see this curl paperback veneer more than a wisker.

I like the glue to get tacky but not dry. If its too wet you get too much moisture into your project. work the iron carfully and I would guees the time frame for the side of a cabinet 14" x 30" to take about 20 minutes. too much heat will crack your veneer and can actually cure the glue too fast while the veneer isnt even in contact. you have to work it slowely and massage into place. The veneer does'nt want to be there all glued down. you have to coax it into the situation.

If you gently tap and the tips of your fingernails on the veneer you can hear when the veneer is not bonded. That's why you saw that little 300B amp in my shop. Cant let the music be too loud or you cant hear the air bubble! I really think your problem was from a dry spot in the glue. Maybe try a cheap roller next time. I use an ink roller, hard rubber with no nap. it works well. I used by mistake or chance 10 years ago and it's always done well.

I cant see the oil doing anything to Paper veneer but maybe soak through raw veneer and disrupting a partial bond. I really dont know. I do know its always chancy to do anything before your 24 hour cure time has passed. We all do it, but it's russian rulette.

more glue coverage
gentle, steady and lengthy ironing
low to med heat
fingernails



Re: Q. re: ironing on veneer [message #29755 is a reply to message #29754] Tue, 16 May 2006 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
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I'm not giving up. I did four cabinets two weeks ago and the last one was miles ahead better than the first, which means I'm learning. I think the biggest improvement I can make is to take my time. Applying two coats of glue intead of just one. Wait for the glue to haze before applying veneer so it won't curl up. Use a lower heat instead of rushing with the highest setting. Waiting overnight for the glue to cure before applying finish.

Thanks for the detailed feedback Bill.

Gar.

Re: Side-to-side or Back-to-front? [message #64642 is a reply to message #29745] Thu, 11 November 2010 07:04 Go to previous message
Billie is currently offline  Billie
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In my humble opinion and for aesthetics I would make my decision depending on the height of the room and whether you want the room to appear larger than it really is.

Top to bottom will give the illusion of height and slender, whilst side to side will have the opposite effect of short and wide.
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