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alighnments [message #26805] Sun, 05 December 2004 19:24 Go to next message
hitsware is currently offline  hitsware
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Baron
If one 'alighned' an open baffle system to
a 2' x 4' panel .............
Could you subsititue a 2.83' x 2.83' panel ....
Without upsetting the 'alighnment' .......?????

Re: alighnments [message #26806 is a reply to message #26805] Sun, 05 December 2004 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18795
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Open baffles aren't my thing, but I can speak to the issue of radiating angle. I'd say the transition from 4π to 2π radiation will be more abrupt on the square panel than on the rectangular one. If a driver is centered on a round baffle, the transition will be the most abrupt because the distance to the edge is the same in all directions. The square baffle is close, because four sides are equidistant. If the driver is offset on the baffle, the transition will be more gradual. So the shape of the baffle and the position of the radiator will set the rolloff shape of the low frequencies due to the sharpness of this transition.

Re: alighnments [message #26807 is a reply to message #26806] Sun, 05 December 2004 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitsware is currently offline  hitsware
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Baron
What I'm trying to get at is how to determine the 'effective diameter' of a panel. There seems to be a couple of schools of thought on this subject.

1) effective diameter = shortest dimension
2) effective diameter = diameter based on total area

I tend to think that 'effective radius (shortest distance
between front and rear of driver)' may be more appropriate.

But people say that because an OB is a 'velocity' rather than a
'pressure' system that the circumferance rather than the (true)
diameter sets the LF cutoff ????????????????????????????????


Re: alighnments [message #26808 is a reply to message #26807] Sun, 05 December 2004 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18795
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
If the baffle is circular with the radiator in the center, then the distance from the sound source to the edge of the baffle is the same in all directions. That will make the transition from 4π to 2π happen over a narrow range because the distance to the edge is the same in all directions.

But if the baffle isn't circular with the driver in the center, transition is staggered and more gradual. Defining an effective diameter for any baffle shape other than circular is a simplification. If you consider the shortest dimension then you'll probably have a little more bass energy than you expect and if you average area, you'll probably have a little less.

Re: alighnments [message #26809 is a reply to message #26808] Mon, 06 December 2004 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitsware is currently offline  hitsware
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Ok. For now let's consider driver in the center of a round baffle.
Call Fc the lowest frequency before rolloff begins. Free space.

As I understand it (not that that means much

The 2 schools of thought......Say we have a 1' diameter baffle:

1) the circumferance must = 1wl so.....
cir = pi * dia = pi
Fc = 1130 / pi = 360Hz

2) the distance front to rear of driver must = wl/2 so
Fc = 1130 / (2*dia) = 565Hz

#1 is certainly more attractive and seems to work, but what about the 'rear wave cancellation' of #2. ???????????

Re: alighnments [message #26810 is a reply to message #26809] Mon, 06 December 2004 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18795
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
The event at 565Hz is what I'd be most concerned with. I would expect this speaker to work well down to ~500Hz and roll off rapidly below that.

Re: alighnments [message #26811 is a reply to message #26810] Mon, 06 December 2004 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitsware is currently offline  hitsware
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Baron
>Defining an effective diameter for any baffle
>shape other than circular is a simplification.

That's what I need !

So say a 3' x 5' baffle on the floor.....
a = area = 15 sq.ft.
r = radius = (15/pi)^0.5 = ~2.19'
d = 2 x r = ~4.37'
Fc = 565/4.37 = ~130Hz
Since it's on the floor Fc = .707*130=~92Hz
-3db = .707*92=~65Hz
Sound reasonable ?

Re: alighnments [message #26812 is a reply to message #26811] Mon, 06 December 2004 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18795
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I'd use the shortest dimension as my place of interest. That would put it around 100Hz. Then rolloff will probably be slower than if the baffle were circular with the speaker in the middle. Instead of an abrupt roloff, you'll probably have more energy below 100Hz than if the baffle were a 3' circle.

It might be interesting to measure several baffle shapes and develop a mathematical model to describe the response. It would be easy to do with cardboard and could help you make a spreadsheet to predict response.

Re: alighnments [message #26813 is a reply to message #26812] Mon, 06 December 2004 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hitsware is currently offline  hitsware
Messages: 51
Registered: May 2009
Baron
>Instead of an abrupt rolloff, you'll
>probably have more energy below 100Hz
>than if the baffle were a 3' circle.

Yea ..... But .....
Here's my (tentative) plan:
Use a widerange driver to get down to say 100Hz.
So a 100Hz driver with a Q of 1 will give a flat
response (Q=~.7) on a 100Hz baffle.
Then add a 'helper woofer' to extend down an octave.
(rolled off on the high end with a 12db/octave passive
network)
(a driver with a Q of 2 @ 50Hz on a 100Hz baffle is
flat down to 50Hz)
Thus the need for a fairly good definition of baffle
cutoff since the baffle is used as a crossover element.


Re: alighnments [message #26814 is a reply to message #26813] Tue, 07 December 2004 00:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18795
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
That sounds like a good plan. I'm reasonably confident that the fastest and most well defined rolloff will be on a circular baffle with the driver in the center.

You might makes some test baffles with cardboard of different shapes and configurations and do some measurements to test everything out. I'd experiment with smaller baffle sizes to shift the frequency up so measurements would be easier. Maybe try 9 inches to a foot, using a small midrange driver. The higher in frequency you go, the smaller the distances involved and the easier it is to gate out reflections from walls and stuff. Once you have defined properties, you could scale up to the size you want and go with a larger driver for your 100Hz model.

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