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Re: You Are Correct [message #20772 is a reply to message #20768] Wed, 30 March 2005 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
Messages: 114
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Greets!

If the specs are close, adding a total of 8 ohms series R will 'fill' a 2.50ft^3 box tuned to Fs. Add BSC as required. Looks really good in a ML-TL.

GM


Here's Where I Am [message #20773 is a reply to message #20752] Thu, 31 March 2005 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
This has been a good thread which has produced several useful suggestions, some of which I probably will implement in the future, but for now I plan to build the enclosures to David's specs and hear how they sound after a breakin period (I assume the same 100 hours that's recommended for Fostex drivers applies to Audio Nirvana drivers too).

Sometime in the future I hope to do a side-by-side comparison with some other single driver speakers including Omega speakers, Lowther Medallions, and Third Rethm speakers that are owned by fellow members of the Lone Star Bottleheads. I have found this kind of comparison using a small group of experienced listeners is an especially useful exercise because it gets comments from listeners who are not biased by ownership of one or the other (as I tend to be). I'll post a summary of my conclusions.

Re: You Are Correct [message #20774 is a reply to message #20772] Fri, 01 April 2005 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lon is currently offline  lon
Messages: 760
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Listen to Greg. He knows his MLTLs.


Glad to see you on here btw. My build of your MLTL for Fostex
FE127e is getting finished off. I fiddled with these for quite
a while-- no test equipment, all by ear. Bare inside. 2x6 in
PVC port with your measures.


Re: I'll volunteer to measure TS params if someone ships me a driver [message #20775 is a reply to message #20771] Fri, 01 April 2005 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lon is currently offline  lon
Messages: 760
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)

I have followed this discussion of the Nirvana speaks for
a while now. Would a test of both units of a stereo pair
be necessary to prove any variances in manufacture?

Re: I'll volunteer to measure TS params if someone ships me a driver [message #20776 is a reply to message #20775] Sat, 02 April 2005 08:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
HI lon,
I agree. a test of both will actually be better. Many driver manufacturers do show variances in manufacture, and a test of a pair would help. If someone wants to ship me a pair, i can testboth. hn
-akhilesh

Re: You Are Correct [message #20777 is a reply to message #20774] Sun, 03 April 2005 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GM is currently offline  GM
Messages: 114
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Greets!

Bare?! Anyway, I've done several different designs, but none I kept specs on require a 2" dia. vent, much less 6" long, so I'm curious what you built and the room, etc., details that would dictate such a vent.

GM

Re: You Are Correct [message #20778 is a reply to message #20777] Sun, 03 April 2005 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lon is currently offline  lon
Messages: 760
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)

I saw the original MLTL design that Bruce Pea made for the Jordan 92s and he sent me some pics. When we originally discussed this, you gave the dimensions and I averred that this was the size (in general)
of partical board shelving. So the box is that shape, the FE127
is mounted 8" down from the top and chamferred. No stuffing, so it's bare inside.

Exact dimensions are: 7 3/8 w x
23 in. h x
4.5 in. d all inside dimensions.


I used a couple of different pieces to make the bottom:
drilled out 1 in. hole and used some plumbing parts to make various port lengths. Also tried getting the port length to spec
by using a sandwich of 2 particle board pieces to get 1x 1.125in.


At least one of the original MLTLs have the port for the
Jordan 92s extending out the bottom and a baffle at 45d built into
floor-standing design with the port extension masking the
baffle.


Well, I only had those pieces of shelving which did not need a
lot more cutting to get to finished size.


I did my listening tests this way:

You know those $10 screw together melamine lamp stands that have
3 shelves and are about 11x11x30 in high that they sell at every
discount store you can name? Ok. I used my 2 in hole saw that
I got for the PVC and drilled through the center of the top
shelf. So the port slides through that and _e' voila_
speaker and stand.


To test I listen to organ recitals, classical and jazz shows, and dvd. What I was getting with the stubby small ports was a very
muddy lower end. This is greatly improved with the 2x6 port.
Clarity of string bass and even those boomers on the organ
recital come through for me in this arrangement. It's not
scientific.

As to stuffing, I tried what you had mentioned which was
putting something directly behind the driver, but anything
inside seemed to interfere with that clarity I was looking for.

So the end result might be that the FE127e is losing something
at the lower end but the overall effect is the best I've found
for the music.


I do not have a shop but I remember you helped me a few
years ago over in FRDF (Full Range Driver Forum by
James Melhuish). That same pair of FE127s became my first
project: modifying some mini speakers from Nakamichi
by mounting the Fostex, plugging up the port hole and knocking out
the backs. I ran that set for a pretty long time at
the computer.


If I had the proper port baffle set up, I think that
that would be the best conclusion to the project. After all
the tweaks are found, I'd like to do this build as more
than a prototype-- in poplar perhaps.


The room is 14x18--pretty big-- some old style apartment with
a large living area. No wall coverings. I am not knowing
how the walls play into this concept very much.


While you're here I'm wondering what your opinion
would be of the Tuba 24 over in Bill Fitzmaurice's Forum. The
builders there rave about them. The Tuba 18 is a project recently
written up for _audioXpress_. These subwoofers get a lot of
horn path in not very much space.


Lastly, Bruce mentioned you had discussed the "thump test"
with him to test a box. Could you describe that for Audioroundtable?




The Audio Nirvana Drivers Arrived Today [message #20779 is a reply to message #20763] Mon, 04 April 2005 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
They arrived today in good condition. Very similar to the Fostex FE-166E's I used in the Voigt Pipes. Seems to be the same frame, but the AN 8" are quite a bit heavier than the Fostex 6.5", even a bit heavier than the equivalent 8" Fostex. So far so good. The enclosure plans are included too.

Now, is everyone sitting down? I don't want anyone to faint and sue me. The 2.5 ft enclosure has two ports that are 3" diameter by 3/4" long - the thickness of the enclosure material. Soooooooo, these things are tuned to about 71hz. Theoretically this should provide about a 2dB dip at 140hz and a 3dB peak at about 70hz, dropping off the edge of a cliff below that. These may be box speakers, but David definitely is thinking outside the box. Kinda reminds me of when Galileo said the earth isn't at the center of the universe, or when I announced to my devout old school Catholic parents and my Great Aunt, Sister Victoria, that I was marrying a Protestant girl. I like it.

I still plan to build these to spec and listen with an objective mind. I can even experiment with longer port lengths with pieces of 3" PVC pipe that I already have in the garage from building the Eros MKII's. So many speakers, so little time.

Re: The Audio Nirvana Drivers Arrived Today [message #20780 is a reply to message #20779] Tue, 05 April 2005 02:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18688
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Phil Wilson has a pair of David Dicks' 2.5ft3 cabinets with Fostex 206e's in them. They sound pretty good. As you've described, once you get south of 70Hz there's nothing, but above 100Hz they are very nice little speakers. I'm not sure it makes sense to push a full ranger down an octave lower, what with xmax and intermodulation coming into play. So maybe 70Hz f3 is a good design choice for something like that.


Re: The Audio Nirvana Drivers Arrived Today [message #20781 is a reply to message #20780] Tue, 05 April 2005 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Actually, the sound I'm expecting, with room reinforcement, shouldn't be too different from Jim's Voigt pipes. The in-room measurements of the pipes indicated a small peak somewhere between 60 and 70hz falling to nothing below that. You're right about not not pushing a full ranger - there are areas where they give you a lot (speed and imaging) and other areas where they don't have as much to give (bass extension & impact, high sound levels), and if you feel you need those you might be better off using a subwoofer.

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