| Unexpected upgrade [message #97992] |
Sun, 08 September 2024 12:11  |
Barryso
Messages: 205
Registered: May 2009
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Master |
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There was a noticeable change in the sound of the system this week.
It runs a Raspberry Pi as a music server with a PI2AES hat allowing a quality connection to the DAC.
Swapped out the hdd spinner hard drive for an ssd solid state drive. The old drive was getting loud and doing strange things. It was time.
Didn't notice a change in sound going from the hdd to the ssd but I didn't really expect to.
But the hdd had been run through a powered USB hub because the Pi wouldn't provide enough juice to run the old drive properly. So after listening to the new drive for a bit playing through the hub it got plugged directly into the Pi USB. That made a noticeable difference in that it seemed to remove a bit of midrange grunge from the sound.
Further, unplugging the switcher from the power strip also removed more grunge. That wasn't unexpected ... I've noticed that sort of change before when removing switchers.
So there's a good deal less grunge in the sound and it's a fine improvement to the system. To use an audiophile term things got more palpable. It's pretty nice given it was unexpected.
Anyone else run into something that turned into an unexpected upgrade?
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| Re: Unexpected upgrade [message #97993 is a reply to message #97992] |
Mon, 09 September 2024 10:44  |
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Wayne Parham
Messages: 18792
Registered: January 2001
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Illuminati (33rd Degree) |
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Dude, that's awesome!
As an aside, when I find digital source hardware that improves from something like this, I always suspect a ground loop is or was the cause. Where there is no DAC change or anything else that is substantive - just a power supply or cabinet change, something like that - I always suspect the ground connection did it.
I think we sometimes forget about that as we've moved into the digital realm. It was more obvious in the analog world - a ground loop almost always presented as noise at power supply frequencies. Either hum from the fundamental or spikes from diode switching at those frequencies, making a harsher form but still at 60Hz or 120Hz, depending on half-wave or full wave rectified. Ground loops in car setups usually present as alternator noise. In each of those cases, the symptoms were familiar.
In the digital realm, sometimes ground loops make a sort of grungy or hashy "background," just like you've described. I see this not only in audio but also in control systems, where you won't hear the noise but can see it with a scope. The symptoms there are usually intermittent failures, usually in sensing, communications or control. When I see those symptoms, I almost always find a ground loop that shows digital noise reflected into a sensor input or communication interface. Sometimes, I'll see it go the other way, with a high-current control signal reflected back into the digital circuits, resetting them or otherwise causing mayhem.
Having digital in our audio world has made life much more convenient and quality can be great. But the connection between digital and analog can sometimes be tricky. I tend to prefer isolation - like through opto-isolators - because those remove the problem. It's not unlike using an isolation transformer for the same reason, usually done in purely-analog circuits where long signal lines are required making ground loops more likely.
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| Re: Unexpected upgrade [message #98043 is a reply to message #97992] |
Fri, 11 October 2024 21:22 |
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gofar99
Messages: 1951
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
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Illuminati (5th Degree) |
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Hi, what you encountered is fairly common. The more devices needed to produce the sound the greater the chance they will color the output in some way. The change to a SSD from a spinner probably would not alter anything stored as digits...provided the drive is not faulty and the DAC is able to handle the drive properly. This has not been a real problem though for many years (drive too slow or DAC not responsive). The SMPS can add junk fairly easy. Many are cheaply made and can be really noisy. Another source of junk is with USB powered DACs. The actual amount of residual noise can be a product of the device that it feeds. I had one USB DAC (good brand) that was powered by a now long gone PC I had. Lots of noise via the USB power to the DAC. A fault of both devices really. The one for having noisy USB power the other for not filtering it well. My main DAC now is powered by its own linear PS. The secondary one is USB powered but it is well filtered as the S/N when used as an ADC is over 90db. Plus the PC probably has cleaner USB power. The lesson if you will is that if you experience any grunge or noise in your audio look at the (1) power source and (2) the connections to the PC as it could add noise etc. Thanks for sharing this with the members as I am sure a few never considered the possibility of it.
Good Listening
Bruce
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