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Re: Tubes versus Transistors [message #96848 is a reply to message #96847] Mon, 10 July 2023 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Thanks for the kind words. We are blessed with the company of a lot of smart guys on this board.

If you liked the Sym-1 write-up, be sure to check out the others too.

As an example, I wrote a version of CP/M for the Altair that supports IDE hard drives and compact flash. The development and debugging in assembly language is recorded there as well. In some ways, it's boring but in others, well, you can see what assembly language debugging was like in the 1970s. High-tech for its day - using an early debugger - just past the time when you single-stepped using the front-panel.
Re: Tubes versus Transistors [message #97996 is a reply to message #95275] Tue, 10 September 2024 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
positron is currently offline  positron
Messages: 113
Registered: May 2020
Viscount
I have obtained a little more information from the
RCA Radiotron Designers Handbook, 1960, by 26 engineers.
Attached are the dynamics characteristics of a triode vs
pentode vs straight line, and the second is the IMD
characteristics of a triode vs Pentode. (See figure 2
in the article to compare.)


The second has to do with the article statement:

"Reportedly, his manipulations were so
successful that not one of his challengers
could consistently distinguish his
solid-state amplifier from their own
specially designed tube equipment,
nor could they say definitely which
sounded better in the long run.

Notice the words "consistently"and "in the long run",
which infers multiple A and Bs, back and forths.
No conditions or methods are mentioned.
As such, they were just asking for a false conclusion.

Any time one suggests just listening multiple times, the listening
session is not scientific in any way, shape, or form.

In fact, the way comparisons are suggested/performed means the
conclusions are skewed 100% of the time towards no sonic difference.
That is worse than a simple normal sighted listening comparison.

This includes allowing one to perform the test anyway
one wants; a guarantee one will Not perform the listening
session/dbt correctly, thus skewed.

The problem lies in the fact that virtually No confound variables
are addressed, except sight. But how is one to know they are
being taken for a ride? I doubt if the author, himself, even knows.

In previous posts in this string, I have mentioned differences
between transistors and tube characteristics and surrounding parts.
Each component, even parts make a sonic difference when specialized
listening tests are performed correctly.

How is that important? In my lab designs (now home) after performing
specialized listening tests of each component, ics, parts etc, and found
accurate in absolute terms, my friends can perceive sonic changes as
low as -132db from the fundamental (using 20log equation).
Not surprising that components with the "same specs" sound different.

Unfortunately the article's performance is an uneducated attempt
to explain sonic differences between transistors and tubes.
However, it is all the parts, and design that are involved in
producing the music we hear.

It is not surprising why Audio excellence has stagnated, and the
audio field has been in decline for decades.

pos




Re: Tubes versus Transistors [message #98016 is a reply to message #97996] Fri, 20 September 2024 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gofar99 is currently offline  gofar99
Messages: 1947
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Illuminati (5th Degree)
Hi Pos, Humm. I don't believe I have seem any gear with -132db fundamentals. The noise floor of the best gear I have is about -120 so the fundamental would not be audible. What gear were you using?

Good Listening
Bruce
Re: Tubes versus Transistors [message #98062 is a reply to message #98016] Mon, 28 October 2024 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OutOfSpace is currently offline  OutOfSpace
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2017
Chancellor
A bit late to the party, but I ran across this article some time ago about the Bob Carver challenge from Stereophile:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

Pretty interesting how he went about matching the amps.

Chris
Re: Tubes versus Transistors [message #98063 is a reply to message #98062] Mon, 28 October 2024 10:07 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

That's a very interesting article.

Thanks for the link!
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