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Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #93309 is a reply to message #93293] Thu, 11 March 2021 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OutOfSpace is currently offline  OutOfSpace
Messages: 14
Registered: June 2017
Chancellor
Just one more thought... If you are up for replacing the baffle board for a 4-Pi replacement design, you can always fill the insides with rigid foam board to take up the excess volume, so the boxes are a bit over-sized, but the actual inside volume and maybe even dimensions would match Wayne's specs. I've done this before, and it seemed to work fine. Of course, the regular insulation would go over the foam board.

Chris
Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #93366 is a reply to message #93309] Thu, 25 March 2021 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
two.dogs is currently offline  two.dogs
Messages: 16
Registered: February 2012
Chancellor
Looks like the pi4 is 3.14 cu ft, and my cabs are 4.72 cu ft. Mine are taller and wider than pi4 but not as deep. I'm guessing that I could block with foam to match the internal volume but still end up with standing waves.

John
Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #93370 is a reply to message #93366] Thu, 25 March 2021 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18168
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Do you have any measurement software?

You could always try it and see how it measures.

I'd hate to cut the baffle and discover it had anomalies though. I'd prefer a restoration to original the three-way design than I would trying to make a DI-matched two-way design out of it and find it had standing wave ripples.

This isn't an indication that the original design overlooked the possibility of standing waves, by the way, When a speaker is a three-way design, the woofer doesn't run as high so the cabinet interior doesn't have midrange energies presented to it.

The sensitivity to standing waves is introduced when making a two-way speaker in a large cabinet.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that if you were OK with experimenting with the cabinet, you could try cutting the baffles. It's just I wouldn't want to ruin them if they turned out not to work well as a two-way.
Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #93371 is a reply to message #93370] Thu, 25 March 2021 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
two.dogs is currently offline  two.dogs
Messages: 16
Registered: February 2012
Chancellor
Wayne, you're making me feel like a murderer! I also enjoy original audio pieces, but these are hacked and incomplete. Compare mine vs the pic I posted of how they came from the factory. Looks like someone might have tried a horn where two of the tweeters used to live, so the baffle is already cut up. My mod plan would be to cut out the baffle, leaving about an inch. I'd make the new baffle to fit inside where I cut out the old. Then I could cut 2" strips of ply and fit them inside to glue the lip to the new baffle. Should be strong like bull. I'd fill the seam and paint the baffle brown like my econowaves. That's a good vintage look IMO.

I don't have measurement software, but have considered the Dayton DATS system. Looks like there is also freeware out there but I haven't researched it. I installed VituixCAD and I'm reeling from the learning curve. Dayton speakers have SPL and impedance files that are easily imported so I was playing around with some of those.

I figured a 15" woofer DC380 would stay with the original theme. For mids, the 8" size of the Aztec seems too large - all the SPL graphs seem to start breaking up at mid freqs. The 6" RS150P is a full range design with a whizzer cone that looks smoother at mid freqs. Maybe even two of those. Then I was looking at planar tweeters, so maybe the PT2C. Maybe even two of those, as well.

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Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #93372 is a reply to message #93371] Thu, 25 March 2021 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
two.dogs is currently offline  two.dogs
Messages: 16
Registered: February 2012
Chancellor
It would be great to figure out how to make an 8" mid work. Then I could leave most of the baffle and just perform some surgery to install the tweeters. I get the feeling that this is a bit of an unusual project. It's kind of an old school design, but using new drivers. I haven't found the internet trove of examples that I had hoped to find.

John
Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #93373 is a reply to message #93372] Thu, 25 March 2021 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18168
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'll bet a three-way design with a ribbon tweeter or short array would be great!

My DI-matched two-ways are great too, but I'm just worried about the standing waves in a cabinet that hasn't been tested for that particular purpose.

And I don't want you to feel like a murderer! Laughing
Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #93677 is a reply to message #93256] Sat, 08 May 2021 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjanda1 is currently offline  pjanda1
Messages: 4
Registered: March 2021
Esquire
I love the idea of repurposing cool old cabinets! No sense going to a bunch of effort to restore speakers that weren't great originally, but cool to reuse what you can. One of my first DIY speakers used old Sansui cabinets that are a dime a dozen. There was plenty of room to slap a new baffle over the top of the original.

I've been half-heartedly trawling for some old cabs that are as cool looking as those Aztecs but a bit smaller for the right mid-century look for my office.

If you find yourself in need of 2226hs in Denver, let me know. I want to hang on to my extra pair for a few more days just in case the 2226s in the 4pis that are on their way to me get damaged. But after that, they need a home. Somebody also just posted a used JBL pro sub on CL that would have two, but they might be tired.

Paul
Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #94754 is a reply to message #93677] Sun, 07 November 2021 08:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
two.dogs is currently offline  two.dogs
Messages: 16
Registered: February 2012
Chancellor
My Monet cabinets are still in my bedroom staring at me. I've done some studying but don't think I'll turn into a speaker designer overnight. Did some web searching to look at other large speakers from back in the day. Aztec Valencia caught my eye. But waveguide tech is better now and that brings me back to Pi. Maybe I'm at the point where perspiration is better than inspiration.

Wayne, the Helmholtz freq of the Monet cabs is 23.6.

Maybe I should make a cheap front baffle out of OSB and just clamp it to the front, using a gasket to seal it. Then I could check for standing waves, and experiment with damping material. I could change the internal dimension with closed cell foam or perhaps make a plywood internal divider. If I needed to change the position of drivers, I'd just have to cut a new test baffle.

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Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #94755 is a reply to message #94754] Sun, 07 November 2021 08:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18168
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Honestly, I think those are too cool to hack up. I'd update the capacitors - replacing any electrolytics with polypropylene - and maybe replace any iron core coils with air core coils. If the HF extension lacked sparkle, I might even swap the compression driver with a modern unit, but I'd definitely keep the old ones if they still worked, just in case I needed to take it back to original. And refinish or restore the cabinet, if needed. They really look good so I can't imagine it would take much, if anything.

Build some Pi speakers from scratch. Don't hack up those groovy old speakers. They're just too cool as they are.
Re: Aztec Monet Cabinets [message #94760 is a reply to message #93256] Sun, 07 November 2021 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
grindstone is currently offline  grindstone
Messages: 29
Registered: May 2010
Chancellor
Alternatives (aka poking with a stick and a smile):

- Those cabinets have never been any smaller and you wouldn't be creating the first standing waves inside them. Ever ride in a very old restored car (but it's Restored!)? https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/charm
- Just run the 15's LF to maybe 100Hz and put them under your ewaves again--presto--3-way that's within 1/4 wavelength at cross
- Cover all the holes but the 8 and put a Betsy in there (which Paul was too classy to mention) and absorb coherence for a while during pondering and learning Vituix.
- Blow-out the baffle, stick the woofer 1/3 from one end and the port 1/5 from the other end and do whatever you want that fits. It won't be optimal, but you wont get into trouble if you stick one diagonal R-19 batt in there pasted down.
- List them for a good speaker-holic home on AK or somewhere & get subs to run w/your ewaves

OK -- now quickly notice your own reactions to those options -- there is your answer Smile

PS IMO, Valencia's "ain't all that" but they do sound "big"...and still don't have low-bass...or highs IMO Smile Was this too many IMO's?
PPS Seriously, any of us with a conscience about stewardship have felt your pain. This is why they stare at you. Robert Pirsig wrote of this in a book that wasn't about motorcycles:

"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed."
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