Home » Sponsored » Pi Speakers » New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout
New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #78931] Thu, 09 January 2014 09:28 Go to next message
jshupe is currently offline  jshupe
Messages: 31
Registered: January 2014
Location: Austin, Texas
Baron
My wife and I are closing on our first house next Wednesday, and since my HTIB receiver has started having issues, I decided it is a great time to refresh my home theater/ home audio solution.

I grew up listening to music on my dad's Weber LBK-400s and my uncle's Aural-15s. Nothing I've ever heard comes close to replicating the sound those speakers made, and I've been searching high and low over the last couple of weeks for a off the shelf solution that competes, but have come up empty handed. I eventually found Pi, and think they're the ticket I'm looking for. I'm going to build two Pi 4 mains and two Pi 3 subwoofers and run a 2.2 configuration.

I'm putting together my build list and would like any thoughts/ advice anyone has. I inherited two Phase Linear PL 4000 preamps and two Phase Linear D-500 Series II amplifiers that I plan to refresh and drive everything with. These two specific amplifiers were modified by Bob Carver in the early 80's to significantly increase their output. I don't have any details of what those modifications were, but will probably be able to find out more once I pick them up in a couple weeks. I plan to replace all the caps in the preamp I decide to use (best of the two) and the two amplifiers before using them.

Since these are going to be part of my home theater solution, I need volume control and digital input from my SmartTV. I plan to facilitate this by using an Emotiva XDA-2 DAC to convert optical from the TV to RCA, and provide line level volume control. To control power on/ power off, I plan to use an Insteon RF controlled AC outlet for the Phase Linear equipment.

I see the configuration as this:

TV > Emotiva XDA2 > PL 4000 Preamp > D-500 | Harrison FMOD 200hz > D-500

The first D-500 will drive the mains, and the second will drive the subs after being filtered through a Harrison FMOD 200hz low pass filter.

I'll use other inputs on the PL 4000 for better quality sources - direct CD, phono, etc and control the volume manually.

For the cabinets, I'm currently planning on using baltic birch with amber shellac, but am worried that I won't be happy with the finish. Another user on this forum uploaded some photos of his speakers finished with amber shellac and they were beautiful, but I'm not sure what wood was underneath them. I'm currently investigating the MDF + veneer route. I will be recessing everything.

My build list (and budget) as follows:

Part				Price	Qty	Total	
Pi 4 Kit			$400.00	2	$800.00
B&C DE250			$75.00	2	$150.00
JBL 2226			$250.00	2	$500.00
15 guage			$30.00	2	$60.00
Pi 3 Sub Kit			$135.00	2	$270.00
Shipping			$78.52	1	$78.52
Emotiva XDA-2			$269.00	1	$269.00
Insteon 2411R			$69.99	1	$69.99
Insteon 2473SWH			$45.99	1	$45.99		
Jasper 200J			$45.88	1	$45.88
Dewalt DW618PKR			$156.98	1	$156.98
CMT 191.008.11			$17.93	1	$17.93
MCLS 6077			$41.91	1	$41.91
Baltic birch			$50.00	4	$200.00
R13 Insulation			$15.00	1	$15.00
Misc. bar clamps		$100.00	1	$100.00
Misc. finishing			$50.00	1	$50.00
Zinsser 00301			$43.98	1	$43.98
Zinsser 00701			$43.98	1	$43.98
Titebond II			$12.99	1	$12.99
Table saw			have		$0.00
Parts for amp			$200.00	1	$200.00
StreetWires ZN1210		$3.40	3	$10.20
Toslink 3ft Optical		$1.80	1	$1.80
SKRL-12-50			$24.20	1	$24.20
Harrison FMOD 200hz LP		$25.90	1	$25.90
#10-32 Mounting Kit		$3.59	6	$21.54
Total						$3,301.67

Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #78934 is a reply to message #78931] Thu, 09 January 2014 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Looking forward to following your build here! Any questions you have - about the design, assembly or cabinet finishing - don't hesitate to ask. I can obviously answer any design/technical or assembly questions, and while I am somewhat familiar with the cabinetry, I generally leave that to guys at the shop. But around here, we have a whole lot of really great cabinet makers, and they are always nice enough to share their advice.

Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #78935 is a reply to message #78934] Thu, 09 January 2014 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jshupe is currently offline  jshupe
Messages: 31
Registered: January 2014
Location: Austin, Texas
Baron
I can't wait to get started. We have to close on the house before I can start spending money, but it's going to be a fun project and I'm optimistic for the results. Thanks for taking the time to speak with me about this the other day.
Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #78952 is a reply to message #78931] Mon, 13 January 2014 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NWCgrad is currently offline  NWCgrad
Messages: 143
Registered: March 2010
Location: Frederick, United States ...
Master
Will follow along...2.2 = Nice!

VIRIBUS MARI VICTORIA
Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #79099 is a reply to message #78952] Mon, 27 January 2014 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jshupe is currently offline  jshupe
Messages: 31
Registered: January 2014
Location: Austin, Texas
Baron
We're still getting settled in at the new house, but I pulled the trigger on the kits today. Probably should have waited a few extra weeks, but anticipation is mounting.

2 x three pi subwoofer kit
2 x four pi kit
... Resistors Standard
... Capacitors Standard
... Inductors 18 guage
... Compression driver B&C DE250
... Woofer JBL 2226
Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #79112 is a reply to message #79099] Tue, 28 January 2014 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jshupe is currently offline  jshupe
Messages: 31
Registered: January 2014
Location: Austin, Texas
Baron
I decided to go with a two stage buildout. When I refurb the Phase Linears, I want to do it right and take my time. Same goes for finishing my permanent cabinets which will have a rubbed finish on veneer that will take several weeks to cure and do properly.

I'm also not sure I want to give up all of the features I'm accustomed to with my HTIB, so I picked up a receiver with preouts for future use.

The first stage is going to be with the following gear combo and painted matte black (chalk paint) MDF boxes:

- Yamaha RX-A830
- Crown XLS-2500 (for subs)

Later, I'll see how I like the Crown and either:

- Replace it with a D-500 and use the other D-500 for the mains, or
- Add a separate XLS-1000 for the mains

And having the 7.2 receiver may be an issue, because I can see some Pi 1 or 2 surrounds in my future.
Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #79159 is a reply to message #78931] Wed, 29 January 2014 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jshupe is currently offline  jshupe
Messages: 31
Registered: January 2014
Location: Austin, Texas
Baron
Today I finalized my cabinet design and created a cut list, then ran it through MaxCut (http://www.maxcut.co.za/) to calculate the best way to divide each sheet.

I set it for 5' x 5' baltic birch and sent the results off to a local lumber yard for a proper quote. It'll take four sheets at approximately $47/sheet + $45 for labor.

I originally planned to do the cuts myself, but it sounds like it'll cost the same to have them cut it and pick up the smaller pieces myself as having them deliver full sheets to my house (I don't have a truck.) As long as they follow my instructions, it sounds like a win! I'll of course still have to handle the cutouts for the drivers and ports, as well as the internal bracing. I bought my router and finishing supplies last night.

As mentioned earlier, I'm building a second series of more permanent cabinets later on, but the first set isn't going to be MDF after all. Due to space constraints, I'm going to have to stack my Pi 4s on top of my Pi 3 subs (I know that isn't the most desirable of configurations) so I'm going to stain them in different colors to differentiate. The subs are going to be Rustoleum Ultimate Kona and the mains Rustoleum Ultimate Driftwood. Both will be coated with a few coats of gloss polyurethane.
Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #79261 is a reply to message #78931] Mon, 03 February 2014 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jshupe is currently offline  jshupe
Messages: 31
Registered: January 2014
Location: Austin, Texas
Baron
I'm still waiting on the receiver, various screws and mounting parts I ordered, and the Pi 4 kits but have started working on the boxes. The Baltic Birch doesn't take stain well. After three coats it still looked significantly lighter than I was going for, so I stripped it, sanded it, and tried another brand. Same result. My first set of boxes will be painted after all. I'm going to use chalk paint on both the subs and mains, but the mains will be a pale yellow while the subs will be black. In the near future I'll swap these boxes out for MDF+veneer and a natural color finish.

The boxes are mostly done, but I'm waiting on the components to arrive before I do the front panels, so that I can measure twice and cut once!

My wife is a little upset about how large the cabinets are, so I'm working with her to redesign our entertainment center a bit. I built the current one (it's pretty simple, but works well with our furnishings and gets the job done.)

A photo of the current setup and the proposed design is at http://imgur.com/a/SGKeH

I'm worried about the structural integrity of using single 4x4 posts for each main and the TV, but considering some of the things I've used 4x4 posts for in the past, they should be fine. Tipping is another concern, but the entire assembly could be subtly tethered to the wall.

Placement isn't ideal either, and neither is using the subs to support stuff.

Edit: alternate approach at http://i.imgur.com/IvWu0uX.png, which has cable management integrated via PVC channels in the wall (made up of 2x4s, wrapped in ply)
Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #79282 is a reply to message #79261] Tue, 04 February 2014 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Viscount
I think you've got the speakers too high. Maybe flip them so the horn is on the bottom? Tweeters should be near ear level.
Re: New Pi 4 + Pi 3 Sub buildout [message #79284 is a reply to message #79282] Tue, 04 February 2014 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
jshupe is currently offline  jshupe
Messages: 31
Registered: January 2014
Location: Austin, Texas
Baron
Good point. I don't really want the speakers upside down, so I'm looking at dropping them down.

With the draft I made, the middle of the tweeter would be at exactly 58". Acceptable when standing, but might cause issues sitting.

If I sat the speakers directly on the top table, instead of putting them on special mounts, the middle of the tweeter would be at 43.125", or roughly in line with the 42" ear height I just measured while sitting on the couch.

Decisions...
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