Home » Audio » Thermionic Emissions » Mmmmmm! Hot Italian Sub
Mmmmmm! Hot Italian Sub [message #11110] Fri, 10 June 2005 04:41 Go to next message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Got a pair of 65 year old National Union 45 tubes. Shoot! They can collect SS and I have to wait.........
Anyway, I had to try them before the DRD's arrived so on down I-71 to Ron's place. In his Yamamato A-08 they sounded less romantic than the similar vintage RCA's he uses but equally detailed and robust.
It's fascinating to hear the marked difference between designs and even within the same family of amps.
Like push-pull. EL-34 ELLA is clean and effortless on attacks and transients but lacks that "hear into the music" SET thing. Ron'e MAC 240, heard briefly last night has some of that but a bigger, meatier sound.
When you first hear the Norh SE-9 you are struck by that "tube aura" that surrounds the music; the 'lushness' or 'tubiness' is so apparent and gives all your CD's or records an ambience that let's you hear into the venue or studio. Or is it a false kind of thing created by 5% or more distortion?
Ron's 45 Amp has just a touch of that tubeiness but with better detail and air so there is more of a sense of 'reality' to it. The 45 tube also seems to have very well-defined attack on sounds like drum beats and brass staccato tonguing. That's what I hope to find after I build the DRD's.
And the hot Capicola, Mortadella, Genoa salami and Ham on fresh-baked Italian bread at the neighborhood Sub and Pizza shop? Class "A".


Re: Mmmmmm! Hot Italian Sub [message #11111 is a reply to message #11110] Fri, 10 June 2005 05:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17419
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

That's cool, Bill. I might just have to build a DRD amp too. Seems like they were talking about one in the Group Build forum.


Thoughts on SETs [message #11112 is a reply to message #11111] Fri, 10 June 2005 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Mine is a Cap coupled amp with the high mu 417a driver tube driving a 45 in SET mode.
Sounds sweet and gives adequate power for 95 db + speakers. BAss is atrifle muddy, even though the output impedance apprently is 1-2 ohms. I haven;'t measured it. May be more.
Call me crazy, but I like my SETs old fashioned: one large output transformer as opposed to the parafeed or drd designs.
Dammit, a SET output tranny is SUPPOSED to cost money & be hard to build...these little tricks like DRD or the parafeed designs are just ways to "weasel" out of the large cost of the output tranny!
It's kinda like an old fashioned small block engine versus these new high rpm bangers.
half kidding!

-akhilesh

Re: Thoughts on SETs [message #11113 is a reply to message #11112] Fri, 10 June 2005 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17419
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Here's a Spice model of a 300B DRD amp:

Re: Thoughts on SETs [message #11115 is a reply to message #11112] Fri, 10 June 2005 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RC Daniel is currently offline  RC Daniel
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Hi akhilesh

FYI, last time I looked - admittedly a while ago now - DRD did require a conventional SE "large output transformer."

IIRC, DRD has two "clever tricks": 1) recycles some output stage current for the driver (via a plate choke) and 2) uses a cap (oil preferably) from the top of the output cathode R to B+, ancient WE style. The means a little lower current draw on PSU, should be less heat in output bias circuit (I think), less PSU in signal path, and DC coupling. This should add up to more modern performance than ye olde RC coupled circuits with premium-ish parts at (probably) less cost. I would do things (only) a little differently than the DRDs I have seen however...

I am in no way associated with those making $$$ from these designs - just willing to acknowledge something clever - if not all that new.

Cheers
Ray


Re: Thoughts on SETs [message #11116 is a reply to message #11115] Sat, 11 June 2005 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Thanks Ray! I was just ranting! Thanks for listening.
BTW, what does IIRC stand for?
-akhilesh

Re: Thoughts on SETs [message #11117 is a reply to message #11113] Sat, 11 June 2005 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
cool link, Wayne!
thanks
-akhilesh

Re: Thoughts on SETs [message #11118 is a reply to message #11116] Sat, 11 June 2005 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RC Daniel is currently offline  RC Daniel
Messages: 18
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Hi akhilesh

IIRC = If I recall correctly. It took me a while to work this one out

I understand the need to rant on occasion - I like to listen. Better to let things out than bottle and depress.

BTW, let us know if you ever want to sort out the muddy bass issue with your amp - I'm no expert but may have a couple of ideas. Given that you are using it in a triamped system - and if you are enjoying the way it presents music - then forget and continue to enjoy...

Keep well
Ray


Re: Thoughts on SETs [message #11119 is a reply to message #11118] Sat, 11 June 2005 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Ray,
Cool. thanks for the new acronym!
When i said muddy bassI meant compared to a solid state amp or a powered sub. Most people may find thw bass adequate in the amp.
I like hte triamped setup, I find it lets me have a bit of the cake and eat a slice too.
thanks
-akhilesh


Re: Thoughts on SETs [message #11120 is a reply to message #11117] Sat, 11 June 2005 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Thermionic is currently offline  Thermionic
Messages: 208
Registered: May 2009
Master
Cool beans, Bill! Congratulations on the National 45s. I have a pair of engraved base, balloon bottle National Union 45s myself. They are some very nice sounding tubes, with a certain magic all their own. Enjoy your DRD amp!

Thermionic

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