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4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74570]

Sun, 25 November 2012 06:00

Nelson Bass
Messages: 39
Registered: November 2012

Baron

I'll of course use multiple subwoofers for a setup with 4pi's but the question is, how good are the 4Pi speakers? Can they compete with the very best out there?

I prefer effortless and dynamic reproduction over everything else.
The best speakers I've heard till this day is the Avantgarde Omega Duo G2 - awesome effortless and dynamic. Will 4Pi compete?

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74577 is a reply to message #74570]

Sun, 25 November 2012 10:47

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'll not comment subjectively, but I will tell you two things:

1. If I could find anything else out there I liked better, I would have bought them. It would be much cheaper than all the development time and money I've spent. I could have bought the most expensive Avantgardes in every color they make and still not put a dent in the budget compared to what I've spent developing my speakers over the years. Some of my expenses include measurement equipment, injection molds, CNC machines, etc. So consider whether or not it would be worth all the bother if there were other speakers out there that were in the same league as mine.

2. In 2000 and before, there were no other hifi "waveguide" speakers on the market. By 2005, you started seeing some Pi clones and loudspeakers of this type started being made by other manufacturers. Now they are very popular, maybe the most popular type of high end loudspeaker. I won't even begin to mention all the brands out there that are virtual copies of Pi Speakers, but there are a lot. Some tip their hat to me, others try and act like they did their development on their own. But all speakers of this type borrow design philosphies from Pi Speakers. Ours is truly the archetype of this loudspeaker paradigm, one that is considered to be the most accurate and least distorted by many experts in the field.

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74578 is a reply to message #74577]

Sun, 25 November 2012 11:05

Nelson Bass
Messages: 39
Registered: November 2012

Baron

Thanks!

While the Avantgardes are very good they're out of my budget...

Any Pi speakers in Denmark?

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74579 is a reply to message #74578]

Sun, 25 November 2012 11:08

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Most of my customers in Europe buy crossovers and waveguides from us and then source the drivers locally. Hopefully some Pi Speakers owners near you will write here or PM you.

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74580 is a reply to message #74579]

Sun, 25 November 2012 11:25

Nelson Bass
Messages: 39
Registered: November 2012

Baron

Great, thank you for your help. Smile

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74584 is a reply to message #74580]

Sun, 25 November 2012 15:39

Nick77
Messages: 44
Registered: February 2011
Location: Austin

Baron

Nelson check out my thread from a few weeks ago, might also give a little insight. Very Happy

http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=17889

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74598 is a reply to message #74584]

Mon, 26 November 2012 16:07

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Here are a few more links:

From the π Speakers website

four π loudspeaker performance data
Read What Others Are Saying (customer reviews)
Threads written by customers, kit builders and DIYers here on the π Speakers forum
Three 4Pi's in Basic Black for Home Theater Build Thread (BigmouthinDC)
4Pi Speakers at NJCU sound lab (skywave-rider)
4Pi Dinner Theater Update (dutchswan0311)
4Pi Home Theater Build (NWCgrad)
4Pi Design Questions (Nichol1997)
4Pi measurements (zheka)
a month away (blacklabel0730)

There are a lot more threads like these describing the build process, setup and sound quality of these speakers in this forum. This is just a few I saw doing a quick scan of the first few pages.

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #74719 is a reply to message #74570]

Sun, 02 December 2012 11:43

Nelson Bass
Messages: 39
Registered: November 2012

Baron

Hi Wayne,

You are very generous audiophile and I've the deepest respect for the time you spend supporting your (potential) customers and audio freaks in general. That alone calls for I need to own a pair of Pi Speakers!! Razz

I've to correct myself regarding the Avantgarde horns I've heard, it was the Duo Primo G2 and not Omega Duo G2 as mentioned above.

The Primo was really perfect from ca. 200 Hz and up and if the 4 or 7 Pi Speakers reach that kind of effortless and dynamic sound reproduction I'll be in heaven!!

The amp connected to the Primo was the mighty Kondo On Gaku. Cool

My plan is to start with 4Pi with flanking subs (based on servo woofers and amps from Rythmikaudio) and later when moving to the right house upgrading to 7Pi.

Thanks for your help Wayne and thanks to the forum members as well. Razz

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #76890 is a reply to message #74719]

Thu, 30 May 2013 10:00

Nelson Bass
Messages: 39
Registered: November 2012

Baron

Hi Wayne,

I've built the flanking subs of your design (3pi subs) but yet have to take them into service. I'm building the 4pi as well and bought your waveguides but haven't bought the drivers yet. Consider the crossovers assembled. Smile

I've been following the 'beyond the ariel' thread over at diyaudio by Lynn Olson and lately read this:

"Tonality and resolution at low levels was one of the big differences between the JBL 2226 and the GPA 416-Alnico. The JBL sounded flat and dull, while the 416-Alnico had the trademark Alnico sparkle to the sound, and most noticeably at low levels. If you want to hear the difference between magnet materials, and overhung vs underhung voice coils, low-level listening is where it is most apparent."

I'm a little worried about the JBL2226 after reading this. What I really liked about the Avantgarde horn systems was its ability to sound natural and effortless no matter what the sound level was set at.

So how bad is the claim stated by Lynn?

I really don't want to listen at 95dB or more to enjoy my music...

Can I substitute with the 2226H with GPA416-16 Ohm? I of course have to make changes in the filter.

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Re: 4Pi How good are they actually? [message #76893 is a reply to message #76890]

Thu, 30 May 2013 13:04

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I like Lynn and would consider him to be a friend. But I don't agree with him in this, not even a little bit. I completely disagree and find the JBL 2226H to be the better midwoofer.

In fact, there is another boutique company like GPA that I used to work with until recently, when QC became an issue. I was always concerned with consistency and build quality from these smaller job shops. I'll probably never consider using drivers from a smaller boutique job shop again as a result.

As for the differences in magnet materials, read this: