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3D Sound [message #69112]

Mon, 22 August 2011 02:54

Hannah
Messages: 15
Registered: August 2011

Chancellor

I stumbled into a video in the internet portraying a 3D sound. I can't distinguish how the sound became 3D so I would like to ask here what is 3D sound? It states in the video that it is different from surround so how does it differ?

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69113 is a reply to message #69112]

Mon, 22 August 2011 08:16

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18675
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

It's a phasing trick, to give an impression of improved stereo imaging. Carver used to do this, giving it the name "sonic holography". The Carver technique puts a delayed and equalized signal from the right channel at the left loudspeaker to cancel the signal from the right loudspeaker at the listener's left ear (and vice versa).

I personally do not care much for these kinds of processors. I think speaker placement and directivity are more effective, since they are acoustic solutions to an acoustic problem, e.g. unwanted reflections and room interactions. I prefer to have a good quality source, amplification and loudspeakers. Stick with the basics.

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69190 is a reply to message #69112]

Fri, 26 August 2011 02:38

Hannah
Messages: 15
Registered: August 2011

Chancellor

So where do we need to use 3D sound if this is not necessary inside our homes. I guess that this kind of setup will also cost me unnecessary expenses wherein I could get the same kind of sound with good quality speakers.

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69315 is a reply to message #69190]

Sat, 03 September 2011 20:04

audioaudio90
Messages: 623
Registered: October 2010

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Hannah wrote on Fri, 26 August 2011 03:38

I don't think we do need to use 3D sound. I think it's just a marketing gimmick so we spend more money. Of course, I think that about 3D TVs too. Wink

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69373 is a reply to message #69112]

Wed, 07 September 2011 10:00

Equinom
Messages: 100
Registered: July 2010

Viscount

Very interesting. I have also been wondering what exactly 3D sound could be. I know what 3D is in terms of the TV istelf, but not with a speaker system. Thanks for the explanation! Smile

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69915 is a reply to message #69112]

Fri, 28 October 2011 14:48

thannytoes
Messages: 3
Registered: October 2011

Esquire

I've been running my Carver C-9 Sonic Hologram Generator for awhile. You MUST set up your speakers correctly in order to get a correct effect. I have my tower speakers only 2" apart! It sounds amazing, I'll never go back to stereo.

Also, check out the next generation of this technology:
www.ambiophonics.org

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69919 is a reply to message #69915]

Fri, 28 October 2011 19:57

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18675
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

What source material do you use? I mean, I know the Carver is synthesized because I have one too, a CT-17. It can be put into one of several modes. But as for binaural, do you seek out recordings made specifically for this approach? Or do you always use a processor?

Honestly, I always leave my Carver in the straight-through mode. I never turn on the synthesizer modes. They're neat, and can make a cool effect. But I just prefer the signals to be unmodified.

The only thing I don't like about my CT-17 is its goofy dual tape interface. For some reason, they chose a daisy-chain approach instead of the more straightforward A-B setup. I think Bob must've smoked his breakfast that morning. But it's the best multi-channel audio/video preamp/processor of its day, in my opinion. In general, I like the way Bob Carver thinks, and I like his products too.

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69921 is a reply to message #69919]

Fri, 28 October 2011 20:25

thannytoes
Messages: 3
Registered: October 2011

Esquire

You don't need any special recordings to achieve the effect, and I always leave the processor on. Mine has 3 buttons on the front: Injection Ratio (Normal/Theoretical); Listening Aperture (Narrow/Wide); On/Off. I leave them all on, all the time.

Try this: Put your speakers together, 2 inches apart, facing strait-forward for the time-being. Turn on the Holography and take a listen. After that, you can carefully toe the speakers in. The angle must be PERFECT, or you will get a lop-sided effect.

Of course, you don't need to use the synthesizer modes.

Let me know how it turns out!

Here is the C-9 manual if you want a thorough explanation.
http://thecarversite.com/manuals/files-manuals/Carver%20C-9%20owner%20manual.pdf

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69922 is a reply to message #69921]

Fri, 28 October 2011 20:55

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18675
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Oh, yes, I know. It's described in the Carver patent.

I have the same settings in my processor, and I've tried the setup. So I know what you are experiencing - a sort of headphone-like imaging from loudspeakers. It's very good, but the benefits are limited to an extremely small listening position. Anywhere else, for all other listeners, it is somewhat artificial sounding. Like you said, the angles have to be perfect, or the whole thing falls apart. You must be directly in the "special spot" for this approach to work. I kind of don't like that.

This is how I prefer to setup my system:

High-Fidelity Uniform, the basic approach
Speaker placement and wavefront launch, visualization of wavefront propogation in the room
Room modes, multisubs and flanking subs, for modal smoothing below 200Hz
Surround speaker placement, for ambiance from the sides and rears

My approach also gives excellent imaging, and provides a much wider "sweet spot". The listening area is truly as wide as the couch. I like my front channels to be very directional with a high ratio of direct-to-reflected sound. The surrounds I like just the opposite. In fact, I found that pointing them at a wall and reflected back towards the listeners works great. Point the (side and rear) surrounds so the angle of incidence directs the reflection generally towards the listening area.

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Re: 3D Sound [message #69923 is a reply to message #69922]

Fri, 28 October 2011 21:10

thannytoes
Messages: 3
Registered: October 2011

Esquire

Yes, it's true, you must be in the sweet spot. This kind of setup would not be good if you have multiple people in a room listening or watching a movie.
I have a small dedicated listening room, so I don't have those concerns.
Just for fun, you should grab two of your surround speakers and set them up for holography and see what you think. Also, it's not really producing an effect; it's correcting the imaging-flaw inherent in regular stereo playback. You can read more about it in the manual (linked in my last post).

As I said earlier, I like it so much, I no longer listen in stereo.

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