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Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77171 is a reply to message #77170] Wed, 10 July 2013 20:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17913
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Thanks for your continued feedback, Pete.

You know how big of an enthusiast I am of horns and waveguides. But for surrounds, I do think that the wider pattern of direct radiators makes more sense.

But for mains, now that's where we want the horns!

Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77172 is a reply to message #77171] Thu, 11 July 2013 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dheflin44 is currently offline  dheflin44
Messages: 47
Registered: November 2012
Location: Carrollton, TX
Baron
Wide dispersion sounds like the way to go for side surrounds (especially for longer rooms), but what about rear surrounds?

Thanks,
Darrell
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77173 is a reply to message #77172] Thu, 11 July 2013 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17913
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I think rear surrounds sound more natural with wide patterns too, at least for movies.

Multi-channel music is a little different, but frankly every music disk I've heard with both multi-channel and stereo mixes sounded better in stereo mode.

I do think there may come a time when more attention is paid to the multi-channel music mixes, and when that time comes, more directional speakers might be better. But that's only a suspicion, just based on the fact that one could produce material that essentially recorded every channel like the mains. It's mostly a matter of content. The surround channels could potentially capture the room acoustics of the source material, if recorded and mixed well.

But right now - as surrounds - I think a wider pattern sounds better. The content of those channels is more suitable for sources with wider patterns. And I do think that will always be the case with movies, because the focus is always forward, towards the screen. The side and rear surrounds are just ambience and occasional effects. Now that I think about it, this is largely true for music content too, because all you would really expect to get in the rear channels is the room acoustics and the audience.

Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77177 is a reply to message #77173] Thu, 11 July 2013 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Viscount
I've got a few music mixes where you're "on stage" with the band - instruments spread all around you. Most of my DVD and BD concert videos use the surround channels to reproduce the ambiance of the venue and audience sounds. I much prefer that kind of mix.

The "on stage" mixes just seem artificial to me. Even the musicians wouldn't hear it from that perspective with the stage monitors and in ear monitors that they all seem to be using these days.

That said, I think wide dispersion is good for all four surround channels.

K.D. Lang Live in London
Stevie Wonder - Live at Last
James Taylor - Live at the Beacon Theater
Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds at Radio City Music Hall (remote always nearby to skip Matthews pinhead rambling and babbling).
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77507 is a reply to message #68358] Sat, 17 August 2013 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
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I've been helping a friend build a pair of speakers. We got them up and running earlier this week and I'm blown away by these things! I've heard all the talk about the merits of high efficiency speakers capable of extreme dynamic range, but I didn't realize what I've been missing 'til I put these into my system.

I have to get started on my six or seven pi cornerhorns!! Can my system really sound any better than it does right now???

These speakers are built around an Acoustic Elegance TD-12X woofer, 12" SEOS horn, Denovo DNA-360 compression driver and crossover designed by Bill Waslo. Details here at avsforum.

Here's a shot next to my B&W 804's
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w473/petewabq/2%20pi%20surrounds/null_zps56494aa0.jpg


Another shot showing more of the room and one (of four) of my 15" sealed subs
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w473/petewabq/2%20pi%20surrounds/null_zps29f2d4f3.jpg
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77509 is a reply to message #77507] Sat, 17 August 2013 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17913
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Very nice looking speakers!

...but I do think you'll like your π Speakers better when you get them built. They measure smoother, and I think they're more refined. I've been doing this a while. Cool

Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77511 is a reply to message #77507] Sat, 17 August 2013 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rkeman is currently offline  rkeman
Messages: 77
Registered: March 2010
Location: Florida
Viscount
The 6Pi is a substantial improvement over the 3Pi if the listening room will accommodate corner horns. The upper bass and lower midrange is smoother and creates a larger and more stable stereo image. The new H290C tweeter horns have been in my 6Pi corner horn main loudspeakers and 3Pi center and surround channels for a few months and are an improvement over the Eminence H290. Some time soon I hope to post a more detailed comparison.

Most of the DIY Sound Group (DSG) designs appear to be similar to the 3Pi and 4Pi i.e. two-way loudspeakers with relatively large woofers and horn loaded tweeters using compression drivers. The crossovers are substantially different from the Pi crossover and the SEOS 12 horn is both shallower and of a different flare profile. There is no corner horn design available at this point in time. I've not had the opportunity to audition any of the DSG loudspeakers and cannot comment on their performance compared to the Pi Speakers offerings.

The samples of the Denovo DNA-360 that I've worked with are very similar to the B&C DE250 and required no modification to the 3Pi crossover when used with the Eminence H290 tweeter horn and Eminence Delta 12LFA woofer. The Acoustic Elegance TD-12X is very similar to the TD-12S in most respects but would benefit from somewhat different enclosure volume and tuning than the 3Pi. I've found the AE TD-12S to be a superb performer in both the 3Pi and 6Pi. If you do decide to pursue either a 3Pi or 6Pi build, please consider posting your impressions.
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77512 is a reply to message #77511] Sat, 17 August 2013 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
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I'll definitely be building either the six or seven cornerhorns matched up with a three or four for center channel duty. I plan to start building the mid horns and enclosures for the HC290 tweeter horns once I get a few other woodwork projects wrapped up. Once I get construction underway I'll make a decision and order the kits from Wayne with the upgraded woofer for the center channel speaker.

Your insight has been invaluable rkeman. Very much appreciated!
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #78088 is a reply to message #68358] Sat, 12 October 2013 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Viscount
I got the wall mount brackets done for my 2 pi surrounds.

I used construction grade pine - a few trips through the surface planer makes some nice (free) stock. Here's a pic of the rough brackets on the bench.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w473/petewabq/2%20pi%20surrounds/null_zpsae890261.jpg

I used bed rail hardware screwed to the bracket and speaker to hang the two pi surrounds.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w473/petewabq/2%20pi%20surrounds/null_zps6b93af01.jpg

Here's a pic of the bracket attached to the speaker - sitting on the workbench with the drivers facing down.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w473/petewabq/2%20pi%20surrounds/null_zpsc9fe5b0f.jpg

I sunk redheads into my concrete back wall to mount the brackets. The side surrounds are mounted with toggle bolts, and regular screws where I could hit a stud.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w473/petewabq/2%20pi%20surrounds/null_zps853f0ab0.jpg

Here's a blurry pic of the left side and back surrounds.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/w473/petewabq/2%20pi%20surrounds/null_zps71c8a6e4.jpg

These speakers sound simply wonderful. It's nice getting rid of retired speakers and milk crates serving as speaker stands now that I've got wall mounts done.



Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #78089 is a reply to message #78088] Sun, 13 October 2013 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17913
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Nice work! Those brackets look sturdy and functional.


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