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Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #76995 is a reply to message #76994] Mon, 10 June 2013 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17913
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

petew wrote on Mon, 10 June 2013 16:58
How is the tonal match if I used the JBL driver in a 4π and Eminence drivers in the 7π? My budget would be stretched using three JBL drivers, but I'd guess the upgrade is more important in the 4π since the 15" covers more octaves than in the cornerhorns with the midhorn.

You're right that the benefits from the JBL driver are much more pronounced in the four π speaker than they are in the seven π cornerhorn. The woofer is low-passed at 250Hz in the cornerhorn, so much of the gain from the flux stabilization ring is unused. But their spectral balance is pretty evenly matched, so you can use a four π center where the L/R mains are seven π cornerhorns.

I think it makes a lot of sense to spend the extra money where it matters most - in the four π model. And if budget is a concern, don't upgrade the woofer in the cornerhorns because it covers less of the band.

As an aside, the midhorn reduces distortion in its midrange, so has less need for flux stabilized drivers. I've used them and they sound nice, but I wouldn't say the difference is noticeable. In fact, I think I prefer the standard ferrite driver in the midhorn, for whatever reason.

I've listened to constant directivity cornerhorns with Delta 10 mids at trade shows, where I have them playing pretty much all day, every day from Thursday through Sunday, and I don't get listener fatigue at all. This has been a sort of litmus test for me. The better drivers always leave me refreshed and the lesser drivers always seem to give me temporary tinnitus at the end of the show. Constant directivity cornerhorns don't fatigue me no matter what drivers are in them, which I attribute to their horn loading.

One of the effects of distortion is listener fatigue. It becomes irritating, and even causes temporary tinnitus. It seems to be a function of SPL/time, in that high sound levels cause irritation fairly soon, but the same irritation can be felt at low sound levels if experienced over a longer period of time. These are my own personal observations but I have also heard comments from many other people that make me believe they experience the same things.

This is what I perceive where distortion is concerned:
    1. In main speakers, lower distortion speakers tend to sound clearer to me, all other things being equal. However, the audibility is a function of SPL, and below a certain level, I cannot detect the distortion.
    2. At high power level, a speaker with a little more distortion will be more fatiguing, making me want to "turn it down" much sooner than a less distorted speaker.
    3. At low power levels, a speaker with a little more distortion will be more fatiguing over a long period of time. At low power levels, I cannot tell that it is going to fatigue me at first, even for a few hours, but after a few days at a trade show, for example, the higher distortion speaker will fatigue me, where the lower distortion speaker does not.
    4. In subwoofers, distortion is much less noticeable, but higher distortion tends to sound louder and fatter. (Sorry for the subjective terms, just trying to describe what I hear)
    5. Just like the mains, a high distortion woofer will be fatiguing, even if it cannot be easily detected.
I gained these opinions after many years of using my own speakers which often come in a stock or upgraded version. The upgraded version usually has a midwoofer with a shorting ring, creating less distortion. Their response curves are very similar between the stock and upgraded versions, but the upgraded model has lower distortion. And as I said, the differences in woofers are much more pronounced in the DI-matched two-ways than the constant directivity cornerhorns, because the woofer covers so much more of the audio band in the two-ways. In the cornerhorns, it's less of an issue.

Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77037 is a reply to message #76995] Mon, 17 June 2013 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
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2π update:


Crossover assembly under way:
index.php?t=getfile&id=1193&private=0


Crossovers done - I sized the boards to fit through the terminal cup holes in the cabinets. I wanted to get everything completely assembled and tested on the bench prior to buttoning up the cabinets.
index.php?t=getfile&id=1194&private=0


Crossover closeup.
index.php?t=getfile&id=1195&private=0


Final coat of Duratex on the boxes.
index.php?t=getfile&id=1196&private=0
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77038 is a reply to message #68358] Mon, 17 June 2013 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

They look great!

Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77040 is a reply to message #77038] Mon, 17 June 2013 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
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We got these completed and lit them up today. The 2 pi exceed my expectations by miles. The whole system just opens up and fills the room.


index.php?t=getfile&id=1197&private=0

index.php?t=getfile&id=1198&private=0
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77041 is a reply to message #77040] Tue, 18 June 2013 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Very nice, Pete! Glad you're liking them!

Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77043 is a reply to message #77041] Tue, 18 June 2013 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
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I'm going to haul a pair upstairs to compare to my little B&W CM1 stand mounted monitors. Should be interesting.

I have a multichannel DTS CD of Eric Clapton 461 Ocean Boulevard. The organ track is mixed into the surrounds and sounded great on the 2 pi.
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77050 is a reply to message #68358] Wed, 19 June 2013 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
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I did some pretty extensive two channel listening to one pair last night in my living room (not the theater). At first listen, the highs were a bit harsh and mid bass seemed "thick". Once I backed away from the speakers - further than my normal listening position - they sounded much more balanced and smooth. Normal couch to TV distance is about 7'. They sounded much better at 10' or more. My little B&W stand mount speakers work well nearfield, but I think the 2pi needs more room and distance to get into the sweet spot. My living room is irregular, hard and reflective. Room treatments would do wonders for the two Pi's.

I think five of the two pi's would make a great home theater on a budget. They have good dynamics that you need for HT. Musical performance is good. Like any speaker, placement and room treatments will contribute a lot.

I'll let Nube give them a listen in the living room and hear his opinion. I'll try some two channel listening in my theater too, since it's a much better space, acoustically, than the living room.
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77052 is a reply to message #77050] Wed, 19 June 2013 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 17913
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Thanks for the update.

You mentioned the listening room is irregular, hard and reflective. That no doubt contributes to the forward presentation. But honestly, I think the biggest thing is the little one π and two π speakers need a little more foundation, something to give them more bottom end. If they are used as mains, they really need subs. They're perfect for surrounds, but don't have enough output below 60Hz, so they sound thin by themselves.

They also sound great in a tiny space, like a car. No need for subs there! But in their native environemnt - in a home - they're best as surrounds or if used as mains, with subwoofers added.

Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77053 is a reply to message #77052] Wed, 19 June 2013 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
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I'll crossover to my subs when I do some test listening in the theater. I'll also run a 4.1 configuration in the theater using just the 2π speakers and my four MFW-15 subs. Look for another review.
Re: Pete's Home Theater Build [message #77170 is a reply to message #77053] Wed, 10 July 2013 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
petew is currently offline  petew
Messages: 63
Registered: June 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
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I never got around to putting more listening sessions together with the 2pi's running as mains. I did get around to inserting them into their designated slots as surround speakers.

I am simply amazed at how they have opened up the soundfield in my theater. It's almost like I'm running front-wide channels, although I'm firmly planted in the 7.1 universe. The wide dispersion of the 2pi's is perfect for surround duty. I can hear every channel distinctly, but they blend and image across the whole rear of the room and mesh with the front main speakers.

They effortlessly reproduce explosions or gunshots, but also can recreate gentle raindrops and chirping crickets.

The other day I was giving a demo to some friends. I was in the back of the room at the equipment racks - actually behind the left side and left rear surrounds. Even from that compromised position I could clearly hear all four surrounds and the mains were still distinct and clear.

I could not be happier with the 2pi speakers. I am so glad that I did not give in to "horn hysteria" for my surround project.

In a nutshell, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!
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