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Re: Da Vinci Code [message #6863 is a reply to message #6859]

Sun, 21 May 2006 18:26

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

How do you mean that?

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Re: Da Vinci Code [message #6868 is a reply to message #6862]

Mon, 22 May 2006 00:28

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18693
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I think that the Church, whatever denomination, seeks the truth. That's the purpose of a church. Its members seek the truth; It's there to help them find it. Now then, all churches are human organizations so they make mistakes. Some I think are pretty bad. But by definition, they are seekers of the truth. Just like scientists. Both are groups of seekers, both have believers and zealots. Both groups have some level headed people too.

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Re: Da Vinci Code [message #6869 is a reply to message #6868]

Mon, 22 May 2006 05:40

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

I ran the truth seeking proposition by my sister's freind who runs the lay ministries for catholic charities here in town. His answer was that the Catholic church is the living embodiment of the word of God; they are the truth.
The flock tries to live by the word and as such reap the rewards of being good christians. Thats why they call the Holy Trinity the Spirit of Truth.
To suggest the Catholic Church must seek truth is blasphemy; it says that they are not of the truth and must somehow look for it. They say they have it.
Thats the way I heard it.

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My sister`s friend and other stories [message #6870 is a reply to message #6869]

Mon, 22 May 2006 06:40

Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

Please, read this two book I posted. Then you`ll have a more understanding about all of this. Blablah like this is on the discussion level of some electronic forums, where arguments are "that`s a way I heard it", "It`s like this or that, I heard it from my sister friend".
Nobody knows anything, have no real experience, nor they want to read some books - no, no way. But, they have strong opinions. About things they really don`t understand, nor they are the part of it.

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Re: My sister`s friend and other stories [message #6871 is a reply to message #6870]

Mon, 22 May 2006 06:52

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

If he is wrong why not say why you think that? I just assume that someone who teach's in the Catholic Church might know something about the faith. You keep telling everyone how much they don't know but you never say what YOU know.
Why do two books you recommend have the whole truth and no one else does? Thats what started this thread; a discussion about the movie that thinks it tells the truth.
At least I admitt I don't know and so I ask someone who does. But you keep denying things but don't offer any of your own opinions. You just insult all of the opinions you disagree with.
I am just discussing something about this with Wayne who is interested in the whole concept and as such I ask what he thinks. I would ask what you think but you never say. And I think you are too emotionally involved with this to have an impartial view and discuss it with out becoming angry. Remmember I am not of the Faith; so getting angry with me is pointless because my only interest is one of curiosity.

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Re: My sister`s friend and other stories [message #6872 is a reply to message #6871]

Mon, 22 May 2006 07:20

Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

This is the discussion level, for example - "yeah, those evil Jews, they want to control the World, I heard it from my friend`s brother in Law" - and it`s very insultingly if somebody here actually is a Jew.
I still don`t know do you can`t understand this, or you`re doing this on purpose?!
Hans Kung and Joseph Ratzinger are (probably) two world`s largest theologians, first from Protestants side, second is the today`s Pope Benedict XVI - formerly Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
I remember one large tubes theoretical discussion, where I posted the literature, and the pages (it was Barkhausen Law). Even described it in my own words. But, to no avail - later it was clear that person who had various "opinions" actually provoked.

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Re: My sister`s friend and other stories [message #6873 is a reply to message #6872]

Mon, 22 May 2006 07:53

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Well I would respect that except for the fact that I never said anything about the Jewish People; second those remarks that might have looked wrong to you are only my experience with the Church and I say it is only my experience. I can't pretend these things don't happen; because they did. You must understand I have my kid in the Catholic System; I see from what happens there and thats my experience. Thats how I form an opinion. When you use an analogy like the one about the Jewish People; someone reading that might think I actually said something so stupid.
What I heard from the teacher I spoke of I heard in person and his job is to teach the Catholic Liturgy and he is respected here and in the church so why would I not believe what he says?
I have read some of Ratzingers writings; they publish them in the Catholic Digest that comes to my home. I think he is a very bright guy.
But my point takes issue with how you oversimplify and deny what I actually say.
My real question is why are they so anti-female. Thats a fact. Thats why the Davinci Code has stirred up the waters. So why not offer some perspective on my question? If you are a true defender of the faith then take time to explain that to me.
The rest is enjoyable to think and speak about; the lost Gospels and why the early members of the church chose the gospels they did to represent thier faith; instead of the ones they refuted. Thats interesting because it says something about human nature. That was the discussion with Wayne; those issues. I can participate there because I can follow cultural anthropolgy a little.
As far as faith; I leave the discussion of that to the faithfull; because i know nothing about it.

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Re: My sister`s friend and other stories [message #6874 is a reply to message #6873]

Mon, 22 May 2006 13:14

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18693
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Whether or not an organization or entity "has" the truth, individuals still have to learn and apply it to their lives. I don't think any Christian church disagrees on the concept that "all men have sinned..." The idea is that all of us are flawed and all must learn and grow in one way or another. Sure, the Catholics and other Christians believe that Christ is the messiah and that he takes their sins upon himself, but the believer must still take certain actions. Not to get to much into any philosophy or implementation but I think it is safe to say Church goers are "seeking truths".

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Re: My sister`s friend and other stories [message #6875 is a reply to message #6874]

Mon, 22 May 2006 14:58

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

I agree with that. Why else would they be there if not to fill the spiritual needs in their lives.
But it is explained to me that the Catholic Church brooks absolutely no dispute on this point; they are Gods representation of truth on earth as expressed in the Holy Trinity. To say they are somehow not the sole and only keepers of the truth or that they must somehow find the truth is a big no-no in their Church.
Just like the wafer is not a wafer; it is the body of Christ. It doesn't represent Christ or act as a substitute for Christ; that wafer is the body of Christ. I found that one out the hard way and took a nice crack in the shoulder from my wife as well as some rather sharp words from the Priest for forgetting that and pocketing the wafer. I thought the man was having a coronary the way he hissed at me in front of God and everybody. " Surrender the Host" he yelled. "Thats the Body of Christ."
You don't mis-interpret that twice.

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Re: My sister`s friend and other stories [message #6879 is a reply to message #6875]

Tue, 23 May 2006 01:30

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18693
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Yes, the Orthodox Church believes that too. The process is called "transubstantiation" and it means that bread and wine have been actually transformed into the body of Christ and to his blood by prayer and faith. It is not merely symbolic but rather an actual transformation to the Eucharist, the body and blood of Christ. That's why you are to be careful with the materials given - do not drop them on the floor or misplace crumbs - because it is the body of the Savior that you handle. This is one of the differences between Orthodox and Catholic Churches and the Protestant denominations.

I respect my Catholic and Orthodox friends and would not want to insult their beliefs. However, I think of this as something like witchcraft and will not take part in a communion in a church that believes in transubstantiation. I will take communion in a Protestant church though as long as they don't use wine.

I am good friends with an Orthodox priest in Tulsa, and have enjoyed many long conversations with him. I like to find common ground rather than dwell on our differences. However, I find the idea of transubstantiation troublesome. For example, a person that is allergic to alcohol may have an adverse reaction to the communion, whether a priest has prayed for its "transubstantiation" or not. So while I wish to respect the Orthodox and Catholic beliefs, I find I must quietly turn down any communion in their churches.

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