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New York Times Leak [message #58840] Tue, 27 June 2006 09:24 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Watching Chris mathews interview Susskind who wrote the book on the NSA survellience program; the NYT vetted the whole disclosure with the government before they even printed. Second; the Al Queada operatives have stopped using wireless transfers over a year ago due to their knowledge of our surveillence. They use personal couriers now. So what is this big Brou-ha-ha with the bush and dick? Sounds a little disengenous on their part to go on TV and pretend this was so hurtfull to our cause.
I geuss they are playing to the rubes again. The bush and dick carnivale hour.

Re: New York Times Leak [message #58841 is a reply to message #58840] Tue, 27 June 2006 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
You know what I find most interesting. Half the folks in our country believe the president and all he says almost verbatim, The other half believes none. What is it that is creating such an adamant division?

Re: New York Times Leak [message #58842 is a reply to message #58841] Tue, 27 June 2006 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Ahhh: finally the question that needed to be asked and answered. The real problem exposed. What do you think Bill; you're one of the more reasonable voices? I can see from your posts you try to find common ground and don't swallow any nonsense.
So whats the story?
The death tax is on the agenda for elimination by this administration. It affects about 1% of the population; and that group has more money than King Midas. Eliminating that tax will hurt the middle-class but help the rich. So why does a guy making 80k$ or less in some red state support legislation like that which will hurt him and his family and only make a very rich guy richer? Why do they support this kind of thing?
I think part of your answer lies in determining why the red staters consistently vote against their own interests.

Re: New York Times Leak [message #58843 is a reply to message #58842] Wed, 28 June 2006 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leland Crooks is currently offline  Leland Crooks
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Master
"I think part of your answer lies in determining why the red staters consistently vote against their own interests."

This book. Although I am seeing a seismic shift here, this book is as clear an explanation for KS and the country as I've seen.


Re: New York Times Leak [message #58844 is a reply to message #58843] Wed, 28 June 2006 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Gee Leland; thats the perfect book. I got to read that.
Listen; we have all suspected as we watched from the distant coasts in amazement that people have been hoodwinked by the right with all that family values shuck and jive. It just seems so transparent that its hard to believe it could have such support.
But when the policies of this administration became so blatantly anti-middle class we all assumed there would be an accounting; guess what? Never happened. And now with this argument proposed by cheney and his attorney Addington; that the President has rights not granted in the Constitution in a time of so-called "War", we are seeing what amounts to a grab for the divine right of kings by the President. Not only is the entire world getting nervous over this; but most of our citizens are starting to feel the anxiety over this very serious breach of governmental ethics.
There is just no stopping these guys and no accountability.
Anyway thanks for the mention of that Book; I'll let you know how I like it.

Re: New York Times Leak [message #58845 is a reply to message #58844] Wed, 28 June 2006 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leland Crooks is currently offline  Leland Crooks
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Master
I was seething with anger when I finished it a while back. Duplicitous, arrrogant, and conniving. It's been brilliantly orchestrated. Machiavelli is probably cheeing somewhere.



Re: New York Times Leak [message #58846 is a reply to message #58845] Wed, 28 June 2006 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yes but you can't blame them. They are doing what they set-out to do. It's the voters who are to blame.
Same way people who you see in the newspaper who are cheated by phony home contractors. You begin to feel sorry for them until you get to the paragraph where the reporter asks why the victim signed on to have this work done by this crook; it's always the same answer;
"He was the cheapest price."
Ever think to ask why he was so much cheaper than the rest of them?
Same here; ever ask how they would pay for a War/The No Child Left Behind Act/Major Tax Cuts/ Build Up Of Military etc?
This bush has never met a spending bill he didn't like.

A classic example [message #58847 is a reply to message #58846] Wed, 28 June 2006 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Leland Crooks is currently offline  Leland Crooks
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Registered: May 2009
Master
The GOP's "American Values Agenda" also includes a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, which died in the Senate before it even reached a vote; a prohibition on human cloning; and possibly votes on several popular tax cuts.


That's exactly how it's done

Re: A classic example [message #58848 is a reply to message #58847] Wed, 28 June 2006 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Thats why I ask the questions on this Dungeon. I don't have a lot of friends in the middle states so it's hard to get any kind of feedback about exactly what and why this silly business goes on. And sad to say the more I read on here the more discouraging it gets regarding any hope of meaningfull change.
The whole concepts just seem to be distorted and unexplainable. You ask a direct question and get a direct diversion. Its almost as if they can't explain themselves.
Why 1/10th of 1% of the population who may or may not want to avail themselves of a gay union should mean anything to the rest of us is incomprehensible.
And actually; how many of the middles can even tell you what cloning is.

Re: A classic example [message #58849 is a reply to message #58848] Wed, 28 June 2006 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
Messages: 1117
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Although I don't really know most of the issues, I can maybe say a little on the midwest, especially KS, setting, so here's a complete incoherent rattling on that probably doesn't have anything to do with your discussion. Having lived in rural KS most of my 36 years, I can tell you that most of the people out "there" don't have much to do with anything that might relate to what they consider "city folks" morals, values, or troubles (seems like most like to deny that they have the same issues in the sticks as are in the city). I mean, the largest city from me when I was growing up was 25,000 people and it was 35 miles away. The only large cities in the whole state are Wichita, Topeka, and Kansas City. Nearly all the towns by my hometown are way less than 1000 people and that goes for 100 miles in every direction. This seems to provide some sort of individualism if you will from town to town. Some towns are very, very strictly religious and conservative. One town I worked in was nearly all Mennonite for instance. The next town 30 miles away is the major thoroughfare for all the drugs coming through the west part of the state and the thinking there is completely opposite of the previous example, but most are pretty much leaning toward the religious side and don't like anything that may interfere with that, never mind if it affects their income taxes, etc.... It's almost like you took a big city and split the damn thing up into 100 little cliques and spread them around. I think one explanation for the conservatism where I grew up is that the people didn't like the idea of any of that "city stuff" showing up in our town and went to the far side of that ideal. As far as people not liking immigrants in my neck of the woods: a lot of that has to do with it being mainly agricultural in nature, especially cattle. Most of the small towns are becoming a majority of Mexican immigrants due to the jobs available at the feedyards, hog farms, and packing houses. They are jobs that don't seem to ask a lot of questions about your status. For instance, I have an uncle who is high up in the sherrifs dept. and he's always telling stories of illegals being caught, detained, then released becuase there's not enough money to do anything with them. This trickles down into the school systems where it becomes a matter of national security for a lot of folks (english as a second language instead of a first and all that). Huge discrimination.



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