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I can't Believe This [message #58793] Wed, 21 June 2006 07:52 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Anyone looked at this immigration bill of bush's? Did you know that it authorises any illegal to collect social security payments for any year in which they were authorised to work but there was no work for them? This is for those who qualify for the amnesty provisions of the bill.
And they qualify even if they used an illegal SS number in the past; they are issued a new valid number. Thats two felonies and still they get citizenship; man the reps really want that slave labor badly.

Re: I can't Believe This [message #58794 is a reply to message #58793] Wed, 21 June 2006 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey, the rebels who actually fought against Croatia for four years, made their so-called "Krajina" country, then lost the war and run away get the amnesty from Croatian goverment. That`s right - the amnesty, all the documents (IDs, passports,...), pension rights, right to their abandoned property + right to fix their houses (on the state account) destroyed in the war, etc. Only the war criminals (who tortured, killed, burned) can`t be amnested, but those people rarely return. Little by little "amnested" people returned, they have the equal rights like other cytizens - everything isn`t perfect, but normal life takes place, little by little. Some humanitar aid organisations and countries help a little in this process.

It isn`t the same situation, but what I tried to say is - civilized life can`t be based on cruelty, unjustice, "us and them", inflexibility and past "sins". Everything isn`t B&W, and compromised solutions (for the most of the people) can be found, with a little good will.
In all those debates about barbed wire fences, guns, etc. we somehow forgot that we are all brothers and sisters - and I don`t care how pathetic and "unrealistic" can this sound to someone...

Re: I can't Believe This [message #58795 is a reply to message #58794] Wed, 21 June 2006 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18678
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

You're really a good man, Damir. I'm proud to know you.


Re: I can't Believe This [message #58796 is a reply to message #58795] Wed, 21 June 2006 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey, thank you, Wayne. Of course, I feel the same about you and all the good people here, despite the political differences... I respect everyone`s effort about this audio forum... well, back to arguing...

Re: I can't Believe This [message #58797 is a reply to message #58796] Wed, 21 June 2006 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I don't know; I always assumed we were all proud to know each other; I never thought of it as a selective feeling.
As far as what the topic is; your situation is a little different D; you had a war that expressed latent hostilities going back to the dark ages. Here we are being invaded by a neighbor who is profiting from the hard work of our citizens while our own citizens go without healthcare and other amenities. It is the same thing as if Greece decided to flood your country with their citizens against your laws and then take jobs away from you and your people while using your health care for free; your schooling for free and offering nothing in return. No national service; pay no taxes; no investment in our economy. They provide; according to the Pew Charitable Trust figures a net loss of over 3000$ per yr per individual to our country.
It's nice to have wonderfull feelings for the world; let me see how you re-act when a hostile group of anti-catholic immigrants decides to demand that your people stop worshipping your way. That might change that happy point of view somewhat.

Re: I can't Believe This [message #58798 is a reply to message #58797] Wed, 21 June 2006 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18678
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Very good point. Patience and tolerance, and listening with respect are all things more important than probably anything else for problem-solving, at least in matters where other people are concerned.


Re: I can't Believe This [message #58799 is a reply to message #58798] Wed, 21 June 2006 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Wayne; you do a really great Mr Rogers impression. Thanks for the chuckle.
I swear it's just that good; "Can you say,,, Egg McMuffin?"
The only guy who did that better was Bill Murray on SNL.

Re: I can't Believe This [message #58800 is a reply to message #58797] Wed, 21 June 2006 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Well, MB - I think that you even can`t imagine what we went through over there.
Some official statistics (the source - Croatian goverment, from linked document, unfortunately, just in Croatian language):

-republic of Croatia has about 4,5 milions of people, the war was from 1991-1995.

-in the end of 1992. there was 663.493 refugees registered in Croatia, and 136.000 that ran away in other countries, total ~800.000 refugees.

-from that number, 402.768 registered refugees came in Croatia from Bosnia and Herzegovina, more then 200.000 Bosnian Muslims among them

-the number of refugees was smaller in 1998.(about 126.181 registered, but more then 100.000 out of system- unregistered, mostly from BiH) - some of them returned to their homes, some went to other countries

-about 283.000 people left Croatia (1998. statistic), mostly Serbs - but at the same time there`re the process of return, parallel with rebuilding of houses

-and the most important thing for you, MB - care for various refugees costed Republic of Croatia MORE THEN ONE BILLION of $. Various foreign organisations and countries donated only 11%, the rest payed Croatian citizens.
-many foreign citizens didn`t return in their countries (Bosnia and Serbia mostly), but stayed to live in Croatia. They have the same rights as other citizens, which are born here, worked here and payed taxes, medical insurances, etc.- and newcomers weren`t.
-there`re many problems - culture differences, jobs, some small towns doubled their population, etc.

-those are just some small numbers about war consequences. I think that this war returned Croatia tens of years back.
But, solidarity existed, and no one blame those poor people - isn`t everything in the money.
This is just the small detail of the situation here.


Re: I can't Believe This [message #58801 is a reply to message #58799] Wed, 21 June 2006 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18678
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Actually - ask the guys around here that know me - I'm pretty ornery. Ain't no fucking Mr. Rogers here.


A few more things :-) [message #58802 is a reply to message #58797] Wed, 21 June 2006 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
"Neigborhood invaders" aren`t guilty for (bad?) US health system, schooling, loss of jobs...blame domestic politics. If small and poorer countries can pay better services for their citizens, why US can`t? (Rhetoric question)

"It's nice to have wonderfull feelings for the world; let me see how you re-act when a hostile group of anti-catholic immigrants decides to demand that your people stop worshipping your way. That might change that happy point of view somewhat."

Those are just your fantasies, as always when you try to prove something. We are open and touristic country, and after all that war traumas - very tolerant and safe. We have a big Muslim mosque in the capitol city, Zagreb - no problem at all, although we was in the war with Otoman Impery (Muslim religion like important part of it) for hundreds of years. "Our" Muslim population like Croatia :-).
And know what? We don`t have and we will not have a terrorist problem.

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