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Don't think guns save lives [message #58564] Sun, 11 June 2006 14:30 Go to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Think again.......

Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58565 is a reply to message #58564] Sun, 11 June 2006 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
How long did you have to search to find that site? Can you look up the site with all the murders committed with handguns for me please?
Thank You.

Not all BS after all [message #58566 is a reply to message #58565] Sun, 11 June 2006 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
First, I do my homework before I post.

Besides you said "....if you try to tell that to the gunslingers they tell you stories about all the homeowners who defended their homes. Its all BS but you cant win with these guys.?

Why don't you ask those that refused to be vicitms if it's all BS. I bet they are happy not to included in the murder stats....Colin

PS, Look up your own information.


Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58572 is a reply to message #58565] Sun, 11 June 2006 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

Are you against handguns?
I'd guess at least 75% of murders are with hand guns. 90% with guns. that leaves maybe 10% for beating bare handed, blunt objects, poison and knives. Guns are just the preffered weapon of a murder. not the reason.


Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58573 is a reply to message #58565] Sun, 11 June 2006 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaveLoneRanger is currently offline  DaveLoneRanger
Messages: 3
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
This is DaveLoneRanger and I specialize in finding and posting stories of citizens using firearms to save life and limb. I hail from FreeRepublic.com. I'd like to answer your claims about guns.

I'm using an anti-gun website's numbers on the deaths of handguns:

--------------
In 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S:

* 16,907 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 11,920 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 347 from legal intervention and 232 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).

-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2006.
--------------

A chart of such statistics reaching back to 1979 can be located here:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764212.html

A few notes on this. First, more than half of those are deaths by suicide. When someone is suicidal, they will find a means of death regardless.

Likewise, it could be argued that if someone is hateful enough to commit a murder, they will find a way if they have to drown the suspect.

Interestingly enough, there were 42,636 deaths by automobiles in 2004. Your argument appears to be that guns should be banned because they can also be used for harm. Using this logic, we would ban cars because they kill people too. This means matches, kitchen knives and baseball bats.

Interestingly, Gary Kleck, a criminologist at Florida State University is a leading expert on the links between guns, violence and gun control laws in the United States.

According to Wikipedia, "He has done statistical analysis of crime in the United States and argues that while in 1993 there were about four hundred thousand crimes committed with guns, there were approximately 2.5 million crimes in which victims used guns for self-protection."

Economist John Lott wrote a work called "More Guns, Less Crime" which essentially agrees with Kleck.

According to the Bureau of Alchol, Tobacco and Firearms, ownership of guns in America is at an all-time highThe number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high, and rises by about 4.5 million per year. Meanwhile, according to the FBI, the nation's violent crime rate has decreased every year since 1991 and is now at a 30-year low.

More people die from motor vehicles (40%), poisoning (17%), falls (15%), suffocation (5%), drowning (3%), fires (3%), medical mistakes (2%), environmental factors (1%), and bicycles and tricycles (1%) than they do from guns (.65%).

I should also mention that from personal experience finding and posting such stories of armed citizens, they are not uncommon. The past two weeks, there have been at least 14 stories. Do the math, that's one per day.

You can read more of them here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=armedcitizen

Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58575 is a reply to message #58573] Mon, 12 June 2006 04:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I didn`t know about those statistical numbers when I wrote this a few days ago:

"IMO - "average" gun owner in the long run has much more chance to shoot himself (accidentaly or suicide), the member of the family (arguing+gun in the pocket), someone else `cos of small incident (traffic, bar, work, etc.); then to somehow defend himself of thieves/killers or so."

The interpretation of this statistic isn`t simple, and many things are missing. But, subjectively - many of those "self defence" situations aren`t "clear". For example, in many countries incident where shop owner shot dead, say, 20 years old junkie who tried to rob the store - this is not self defence on the court...
Yeah, the clerc had the gun behind the desk and murdered the kid for $100...but is it the right path for the society and for the individual persons?

Anyway, number of the death from firearms use is scarying high, even for the big country like US - 30 000 dead per year is more then in many wars!

Re:Who's Next POPGUNSAM? [message #58576 is a reply to message #58575] Mon, 12 June 2006 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Registered: May 2009
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DaveLoneRanger;....O'Kay.
Damir; these people are what we call fanatics and they will say anything to twist and turn the truth to get their way.

Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58577 is a reply to message #58572] Mon, 12 June 2006 05:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yes; actually I am against the manufacture and distribution of handguns except where an authorised law enforcement need exists.
I think Cops are trianed and counseled on a regular basis in the use and safety requirements of handguns. They have the job to lose if they misuse them. And reasonably someone has to be able to deal with any illegal weapons used for force.
But I don't think every Tom Dick and Harry should be owning and carrying handguns on their person in public.

Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58578 is a reply to message #58577] Mon, 12 June 2006 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric is currently offline  Eric
Messages: 34
Registered: May 2009
Baron
I was once a member of Handgun Control Inc. I knew nothing about the use of guns except a few stories from the media. Then I moved out of MA into the VA countryside and see then used all the time. For example, a guy leaving a bad situation with his wife (she's fighting with some other women there). He isn't going to shoot anyone, but the gun is there for protection against the possibility of harm. These aren't perfect people or perfect situations, but it's a lot more safe out here in the country then in the city or suburbs.

Re: Don't think guns save lives [message #58579 is a reply to message #58578] Mon, 12 June 2006 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
Messages: 677
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

That's one of the points. there should be more training. Kids should not be weilding handguns because they are cool. or sneaking one into school to be a show off. It's the attitude of the people on the street waving guns in your face and shooting people silly or no reasons that needs to change. I see those people as killers. a gun is the weapon of choice. take away the gun and you still have a killer; the killer finds a new weapon.

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