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To my ManualBlock.. [message #56774] Sat, 27 August 2005 07:26 Go to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Just to clarify something from our discussion below.

I said the US imports about 2% of it's oil from Iraq.

You said:

"Iraq holds the second largest oil reserves in the world; little more than 2% I would say"

First off oil reserves and actual exports are different but in any case. See the link below for the facts. Take particular note of the line graph showing how much oil the US imports from the entire Persian Gulf for the period between 1972-2003. This includes Saudi Arabia the largest exporter by far.

Still think the war was about oil? I ask my question again. If the war is about oil why pick on a country that we barely get oil from? But just to be clear I do understand we have some oil interest in Iraq. Hardly enough to go to war for wouldn't you say?



Re: To my ManualBlock.. [message #56775 is a reply to message #56774] Sat, 27 August 2005 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
So.. where did we get all that oil? Maybe from brokers; who got it from the mid-east?
I appreciate you educating me with websites; but you must be aware that for every site you can access I can get a competeing site that says the opposite. Thats why I don't do dueling websites.
These discussions boil down to pretty simple concepts and results. If something works and is fair it is good and if it does harm and does not accomplish any good then it is bad.
I delve into those perceptions that tell me how someone can believe that this administration is behaving in a way that persues the common good for all Americans. To me the concept is so ludicrous that I am driven to seek the reasoning behind supporting such obviously self-serving policies.
Thats what holds the interest for me in these discussions.

"I care not whether a man is good or evil; all that I care,
Is whether he is a Wise man or a fool. Put off Holiness and put on intellect." William Blake.


Come on ManualBlock... [message #56778 is a reply to message #56775] Sat, 27 August 2005 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr Vinyl is currently offline  Mr Vinyl
Messages: 407
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
This isn't a propaganda website. It's a site that is simply reporting what the exports of oil are in the Persian Gulf. If you can show me a site that says otherwise please do. I like to have my facts striaght and would appreciate the input. If you can't then you are wrong. We get very little of our oil in the US from Iraq. This is the crux of your argument. If you can't refute this one simple point then you are wrong. So go ahead and do it. I am man enough to say I'm wrong if that is the case. Are you man enough to admit when you are wrong?

But here is the problem you have. If in fact we get very little of our oil from Iraq (in fact we get less than 20% of our oil from the entire Persian Gulf) then your hypothesis that the war is about oil completely falls apart doesn't it?

Re: Come on ManualBlock... [message #56779 is a reply to message #56778] Sat, 27 August 2005 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Mr V you need to read your own website offering a little more closely. Iraq was at war during the last of the data sub-sets and as a result the oil fields initially were unavailable. However prior to sanctions and currently look at the totals. Second I know I said they have the second highest reserves of oil in the world. Check your website because I'll be damned if it doesn't seem to say the same thing.
The problem with this site is it reports the data unconnected to geopolitical events. While the Saudi's increased production to meet demand much of the Irqi oil that did get above ground was ferried through phanthom delivery systems brokered by international business consortiums.
Believe that oil got sold because it did; just not reported.
Thats the problem with trying to promote your point with a website, it just leaves too much out to be of any use.
And your points would hold more weight if you could refrain from the sales pitch for the Republican party every time you make a point.
Anyone out there who thinks the Republican party is the second coming of Athenien Democracy; raise your hands.

If anyone really wants to know why we're in Iraq [message #56781 is a reply to message #56779] Sat, 27 August 2005 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
You can find out at the link below.

During Clinton's adminstration, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Pearle, Rumsfeld - all the name you know and admire, formed the Project for a New American Century.

You can read their detailed plan to preserve the "pax americana" as they called it.

You can read about how they advocated the need for a "transformational laboratory" and then you'll understand why we're fighting in Iraq the way we are/were - few troops, rapid advance, etc...-

You can read how 9/11 was used to get the project going once they were in power again - they were waiting for it - "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor." (page 51)

You can see how everybody's role was planned out 8 years before Bush took office - the details ensuring the American world-wide hegemony.

They've taken down a lot of their document recently, but the document below is the detailed plan they devised and published just before assuming power.


It quotes the exports of oil to the US for the period 1973-2003... [message #56783 is a reply to message #56779] Sat, 27 August 2005 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr. Vinyl is currently offline  Mr. Vinyl
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2009
Esquire

That should be sufficient I would think.

We weren't talking about reserves now were we? We were talking about oil from Iraq imported into the US. So spare me the BS. Obviously you are wrong about the war being about oil and your not willing to admit it. Still haven't seen your answer regarding what you would have done. Also haven't seen your web site showing me wrong regarding the 2% figure I gave regarding imports of oil to the US from Iraq. Why or why are you answering these important questions.

Let me explain the "my" in the title of my post above... [message #56785 is a reply to message #56774] Sat, 27 August 2005 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr. Vinyl is currently offline  Mr. Vinyl
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I had originally titled my post "To my friend ManualBlock". I thought that might sound condescending so I tried to change it to "To ManualBlock'. I forgot and left the "my" in by mistake. So if the title looks weird that's why. Looking at it the way it appears looks condescending and I didn't mean that. Sorry about that.

Re: Let me explain the "my" in the title of my post above... [message #56787 is a reply to message #56785] Sat, 27 August 2005 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Are you kidding me? We are friends; otherwise how could we argue like this and remain on speaking terms. At least thats the way I see it.
By now I know you are good guy who happens to disagree with me; thats all there is too it.
But that don't mean I go easy on ya'

Re: Let me explain the "my" in the title of my post above... [message #56788 is a reply to message #56787] Sat, 27 August 2005 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mr. Vinyl is currently offline  Mr. Vinyl
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Just trying to keep the debate on nice terms that's all. In any case I really am growing tired of this this one. I think I will drop it for now. Unless I read something that really gets me going again.

Have a good weekend.



Re: It quotes the exports of oil to the US for the period 1973-2003... [message #56789 is a reply to message #56783] Sat, 27 August 2005 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well I guess that makes us even regarding refusal to address issues. I actually obtained the figures for oil imports from a govt site and those were corroberated by your site you offered. I can't see where you fail to interpret this correctly. Sales are sales, no oil is directly imported anywhere; it's done by brokers all over the world.
I say again; read your site carefully; all the info is there. And why persist in badgering me for solutions to major world problems and you can't even address where the insurgency gets its support; because hey; that kinda destroys pretty much most of your argument so I understand why you dodge that question.

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