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Re: Democrat Values [message #56276 is a reply to message #56271] Wed, 18 May 2005 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Let me say this my Republican friend. You're not going to get that kind of an argument here. I say this so you don't waste your time. Dabbling in political posts is one thing but hardcore debate is for another more politically oriented site. I don't minimize your position, just telling it like it is.
Personally my political concern lies on the personal level; ie. I just want a level playing field for everyone; not just the priviledged or the lucky.

American Politics [message #56279 is a reply to message #56276] Thu, 19 May 2005 01:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Young Republican is currently offline  Young Republican
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
I like a level playing field too and that's why I don't like entitlements. Is it fair that one man does poorly in school, never takes an interest in working or society but society will pay him welfare money? While another works hard to stay in school, then gets out and works hard for a job and his standard of living but is not that much better? Democrats would have both men having the same standard of living, or very close. Republicans would allow the working man to rise while the non-working man sinks. People need an incentive or they stagnate.

The middle class is broad in this country because of Republican values. Work hard for a better life. The dems want entitlements, free for everyone, no matter what. This disadvantages the working man and benefits those that don't work. It also tends to widen the lower class.

Don't start in on the big business bad man story. At this point, the dems usually point to corporate corruption and say that's all Republicans are about. Criminal activity is not part of the Republican agenda. Democrat "pundits" like to equate the two things because it gets people revved up but that's just propaganda.

Many people outside the USA and even people inside the USA under 30 think the democrat party in America has democratic values. Not so. Democrats believe in socialist values. Republicans believe in the free enterprise system. That is important, because a lot of people get stuck on the name without realizing they are exactly opposite of what they think.

In fairness, most people that vote democrat must certainly want a level playing field and all good things. So do socialists though, don't forget they were idealistic dreamers wanting (and believing) they were building a utopian society. It isn't right to say any of these systems or the people in them are inherently corrupt. That's not what I'm saying. In fact, when an economy stagnates very badly, some capital infusion tends to stimulate it, and that is an idea favored by democrats. I don't say everything the dems say is bad. I do think dems are politically motivated though, and way off the track in a way that is very bad for the country. It isn't about social-economic issues anymore, it's about winning the next election. That puts a real kink in the values, and makes entitlements very, very dangerous bargaining chips.

Republicans are for getting what you work for. If you're a Republican, you believe that you hunt for food or grow some crops, prepare it and eat it. If you aren't a farmer, then you do something that a farmer would want and you trade him for his food. The exchange is done with money, but you still do something for your living. If you cannot earn your keep, a Republican doesn't want you to starve but some accountability is expected. Republicans have that as their basic value system.

Democrats are for sharing and dividing resources equally. When human nature comes into the picture, what tends to happen is that people get lazy and don't perform. They just want handouts. Socialist countries at least have quotas and if you don't match them, you are punished. The Democratic party hasn't thought it through that far, they just want everyone to have the fruits of a healthy economy, whether there is production to support it or not. The democrat socialist agenda practically ensures an unhealthy economy.

Hmmm... [message #56280 is a reply to message #56279] Thu, 19 May 2005 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I can`t say anything about US politics, but in Europe there are some countries with very healthy economies, with large social/human/medical/pension, etc. rights, with "left" goverments. And there are some "left" goverments only by the name.
And there are some countries where only 40% people vote (60% know that`s only a BS performance), and minister or district-prefect became the local tycoon with 8% votes by the "left" and "right" arranging...money, money, money and political power are nice things, or about the same thing.
The best thing is that I can`t be more specific, I already said too much.

Re: American Politics [message #56281 is a reply to message #56279] Thu, 19 May 2005 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
First let me say that the above is perfectly alright to debate because it is your opinion and your feelings. Not a fact attack.
Welfare; for all intents and purposes no longer exists. To get on welfare you have to be one step from the grave nowadays. If you are on welfare in these times, you need it. It is so difficult and horrible of an experience that only the most desperate succumb.
Not to be confrontational but there is a case to be made that farm subsidies is a big welfare program and most of the recipients are very wealthy landowners; as well as huge government tax relief programs for the energy industry and the pharmaceutical industry. Who do you think picks up those tax burdens? It ain't Donald Trump.
I think you are confusing Communism with Socialism. The latter seeks to provide basic needs to all by allocating revenue in a fair manner.
Would you eliminate childrens school lunch programs for indigent parents. My point is when these kinds of programs are eliminated; it is usually to create a benefit for the more affluent who really do not need the help in order to burden the less able with higher financial responsibilities.
If you believe in the law of the jungle; that only the strong survive(where you state that we should let the weaker members of our country sink) then fine; but don't try and call it civilisation.
All politicians do what they do to get elected; assigning nefarious agendas to the democrats exclusively is naive'.
Here's my beef. The Republican Party stood for over 100 yrs. for; Less Government.
That means less taxes
Less involvement in personal lives.
Less regulatory restrictions on business.
Fiscal responsibility.
More power to state government.


The current administration has;
Raised taxes by cutting all funding to the states while createing mandated programs that cost huge amount of money.
Created a whole new department of govt. in the Homeland Security Dept. then forced the funding onto the states
Created the No Child Left Behind act then left funding to the states.
Started a War to Obtain foreign resources while instituting a tax rebate to help them get elected.
Caved in to pressure from religous extremists to use the courts to mandate morality.
There's more but I don't want to use the bandwidth.

Re: American Politics [message #56282 is a reply to message #56281] Thu, 19 May 2005 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Young Republican is currently offline  Young Republican
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
There are Section 8 apartments in every city filled with drug dealers and prostitutes getting subsidized with public moneys. This doesn't require a person to be one step away from the grave and is horribly abused.

The people that could really use program like this usually get back on their feet in a short period of time. Someone that actually contributes to society and just has a temporary problem will solve it eventually. They need emergency assistence only.

Section 8 style entitlements simply don't work. Same thing with food stamps. The acceptance procedure takes several months to go through so the only people that get them are "professional" welfare recipients. They are people that get themselves setup for life.

The politicians that voted in these kinds of programs obviously didn't think them through. They might be a good campaign platform for a dem but as a real social assistance program, they can't possibly do any good. The only people on them are long term welfare recipients. There are no emergency plans for the truly needy, only plans for people that contribute nothing and are the same as street panhandlers. Except of course, these people have their panhandling down to an art.

No Repulican would vote for something like this. It is the dems that put plans like this into effect. It hurts the working class by taking food off their plates and giving it to the dope dealers and panhandlers that have taken the time to get setup on Section 8 and food stamps.


Re: Hmmm... [message #56283 is a reply to message #56280] Thu, 19 May 2005 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Young Republican is currently offline  Young Republican
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
With all due respect, I have never seen a country with a highly socialized government and a strong economy.

Re: Hmmm... [message #56284 is a reply to message #56283] Thu, 19 May 2005 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
If you "have never seen" countries with high standard for their cityzens and large social rights + prosperous economy, that doesn`t mean that those European countries doesn`t exist:-)

Re: Hmmm... [message #56285 is a reply to message #56284] Thu, 19 May 2005 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Young Republican is currently offline  Young Republican
Messages: 13
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Name one. Show me a country with a highly socialized government and a strong economy.

Re: Hmmm... [message #56286 is a reply to message #56285] Fri, 20 May 2005 02:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey, why I would do your homework? Whatewer I say - you have your interests and your politics in your head and your truth. If I`ll say, see the Sweden or Finland or Australia or whatewer country, you`ll only try to find some negative thing about these countries, something that "prove" that your political/religious convictions are right - there`s ONE GOD, ONE WAY, ONE COUNTRY, ONE PARTY, AND ONE LEADER. Right.

Kill the poor! [message #56287 is a reply to message #56282] Fri, 20 May 2005 03:01 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
May I suggest this song, "Kill the poor", then "Kinky Sex Makes The world Go `Round" and many other of "Dead Kennedys"?
Here`s the link for the one, enjoy...

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