Off topic but Gregory Corso passed away last week. A true primer for the beats and a great street poet.

That got me thinking about the beat influence on culture and how the rennaissance is due.

"There is no tell throughout,
The ages,
That a messenger-spirit,
Ever stumbled into darkness."

Gregory Corso

I recall Corso as one of the City Lights Poets along
with Ferlinghetti and some other stuff I forgot.

The only poem I remember by him was called "Bald"
the first line of which was:

"My hair is dead!"

As to the rennaisance, I've been waiting for that my whole life.

Just recently I was talking with someone about revolution poets.
I thought of and mentioned The Last Poets who, as a group, were
a major influence on early rap music and are referred to by
name on the "Thank you" section of one of the Public Enemy
albums by Dr. Dre. I was surprised to find it is available
on cd and so, after a mail to the request line at the public
library, they now own a copy of "When The Revolution Comes"
"This is Madness" and the other items on the first Last Poets.

As to the Beats, the best Beat for me was and is Ken Nordine--
famous for his Word Jazz recitations and recordings first heard
on Chicago radio. Nordine who is a radio personality was more
famous for being the voice of Folger's Coffee. But his
recording techniques have been widely copied by the advertising
business for radio. If you heard the originals you would know
and recognize these techniques immediately.

Oh yeah, and Stan Freberg. Stan Freberg saw the inherent
humor in the over-seriousness of the Beat Movement and
made fun of it mercilessly. I guess if, as Kerouac said,
that Beat meant worn out and worn down as in 'beat up',
then Freberg in his humor was the anti-beat, the Upbeat.

lon

• Ken Nordine stuff

Why do the Last Poets seek to distance themselves from Gil-Scott Heron?
Many of their lyrics are interchangeable; since they appear at the same time period it seems to be a puzzle.

Can you extropolate the meaning of a movement from the perspective of history? I know definately in terms of music which is the reason for this forum that the importance and effect of music on our day to day is nowhere near what it was in the late 60's and 70's. It had a different meaning then than it does now.
Read Damir's musical commentaries and you can see what I mean; the importance music heald to him and his contemporaries over there as a soundtrack to change.

What do you think of Kerouac?

Best joke I've heard over the past few years is one phrase:

"Colin Powell-- The Other White Meat."

As the educated or middle class has become integrated, whatever
movement there was is significantly diluted.

Most recently, the work of Malik Raheem in New Orleans shows
what long term activism is about: community building and
infrastructure in the form of clinics and other services.

Angela Davis is a professor some place. So is Ishmael Reed.

But it takes someone like Dyson who is a "power talker" in the
sense of old line pre-television smoothe politicians who gives
an actual boots on the ground message to those of us in the
under class. And, I count myself as one of them.

Everything I know about Jack Kerouac I learned from Steve Allen.
Steve Allen made a documentary about him. What is more interesting
to me is the fact that John Cassavetes old tv show called
Johnny Staccato has been recently made into a film festival.
I don't know if dvd production of that will take place, but
it's certainly more signifcant than The Dick Van Dyke Show.

I think this thread is about nostalgia. I really have no nostalgia
for 'the good old days.' But in those old days there are
a few things worth remembering which I call my "personal oral
history." I mainly talk about that.

If I recall correctly, "This Is Madness" was the last composition
by the Last Poets as a group. "This Is Madness" was about bad drug trips. That just about says it all.

I believe that music had a more connected effect back in the day and I also think it will as everything does resume that function.

Why If I may ask are you a member of the underclass?

--> No I don't think so. He said Anything Goes.

Nostalgia is a word fraught with meaning. For those who see all things as progressing in a linear fashion from point a to the dirt nap then it takes on a grim connotation.
Do people really hold their world view in such a prescriptive manner? I wonder.

--> I know this is rhetorical above but I'm of the mind that
the good old days that everyone 'remembers' including
the tv producers of That 70's Show or the whatits--
blended family that I never watched-- have a view of that
time that I don't share. The good old days then and I'd
venture to say now as well largely depend on your position
in society.

Gil-Scott Heron makes great music and writes beautifull songs; what has that to do with nostalgia? And Kerouac can suck you in emotionally like all true writing should so that serves a modern purpose.

--> In point of fact, GSH hardly sang at all but talked poetry.

I never put on rose glasses; but those things that were good didn't get bad over time. They bridge the things we do with experience; not always remmembered correctly but then nothing has the exact reality for each of us and niether does the passing of time.
I hope this doesn't sound confrontational because it isn't but as an older guy these things have a immediacy that demands attention.

--> What things? I'm an old fart too.

I think also the current lack of valuable musical and written art available forces us to examine the best of all that we have at hand.
And what is shared events but the evolving of culture.

--> There's always new art. I'll venture to say neither
of us have heard any of the good stuff. We are not current
with it. One of the great experiences of my life as an
18 year old was seeing Julian Beck's Living Theatre live
on a college campus in Appleton Wisconsin. I was in the
right place at the right time.

I believe that music had a more connected effect back in the day and I also think it will as everything does resume that function.

--> Until then people will keep on going ooblah dee ooblah dah
with their old Beatles records.

Why If I may ask are you a member of the underclass?

--> No comment.

"Rivers Of My Fathers."
Another
"Lady Day And John Coltrane."

I am sorry if I overstepped with the underclass question; I can't figure if you are being rhetorical.

Television shows prior to the Regean repeal of the Broadcast Standards Act were better because they were limited by law to no more than a small amount of commercial airtime per hour. Thats why in re-runs or on DVD the older shows last longer and have a more complete story line than everything that came after Regean. Now it's all commercials and they can't get a narrative flow going; thats why all the new major network shows suck.

We both make attempts to find the new and good in art so where the heck is it?

I can write a very long essay about what was better or different about the years from 1965-1980. I'll spare that but I do believe there was a more coherent culture that assesed value and worth that we don't see today.

A friend who graduated from City College back when it was considered a great school says this:

"When I sat in the graduation commencement ceremony back then there were five Summa Cum Laude awards. I attended a ceremony there recently; same number of students, 30 or more Summa's. What the hell are these people doing, it can't be that everyone got much smarter."

Maybe it's best pursued in mail.

Yes, the phenomenon of grade inflation is well known and
percolates down to the high school level where there have been
as many as 38 valedictorians at one schoolgraduation.

In the era of children being raised on Mr. Rogers where everyone is
special and above average (Prairie Home Companion) parents have been able leverage and influence teachers. Recently I was told by a retired university professor that at the end of term, the teacher is required to hand out one of those "how am I doing cards" with the
numbers 1 (poor) through 5 (great!) which are reviewed by faculty
or somebody. So the teachers have had to become pleasers.

On this whole subject of everyone being special and
exceptional there is an excellent book which all Americans
should read called "Mediated" by Thomas DeZengotita.
The author writes for Harpers and has published this book on
what he calls the portrayal of the individual as one of flattering
representation. It's narcissism by another name and it has
affected the national psyche.

• Mediated

But one note on Harpers: the most recent article they had on education
was by Jonathan Kozol on the re-segregation of the school system.

Kozol offers this anecdote in that piece:

He said, "When I go to the house of some well-to-do acqaintances
they look at at me cautiously. They think I want to redistribute
their wealth. I do."