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Source loop [message #96994] Sat, 16 September 2023 06:36 Go to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1059
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I assembled my preamp kit back a few now that I really enjoy. It has an internal phono circuit which is very nice too. But I'd like to put an output jack on the back panel to send all input signals to so that I can utilize the Aphex Aural Exciter I've use for years with my old phono preamp, a Graham Slee unit. It may be sacrilege for purists but I like it's effect bringing presence and definition with recorded music. They're used in recording studios quite a bit. As is now the inputs go to the selector switch, then on to the volume pot. I though of using a two way on-on to facilitate this idea. Here's a crude rendering of what I'm-a-thinkin.

/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3354&private=0

I just wanted to know it this is feasible like shown. I wanted to be able to keep the signal routing somewhat like it is now and being able to use the Aphex with all inputs too. I don't know if switching while active would cause some nasty pop's or not. But if so, I could just refrain from that. But, maybe there's a better implementation for this scheme of mine. Which I present to people here in the know. Appreciate the input for the output.

Re: Source loop [message #96998 is a reply to message #96994] Sun, 17 September 2023 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gofar99 is currently offline  gofar99
Messages: 1884
Registered: May 2010
Location: Southern Arizona
Illuminati (5th Degree)
Hi Rusty, It will likely work OK. My major concern is if there is a serious impedance mismatch that could mess up the sound. It could be too high feeding into a low Z input or the other way around. The first would likely cause serious loss of high freqs, the other loss of bass. There could also be an issue with differing signal strength. One very loud the other not so. Yes a pop could occur if any of the outputs has a coupling capacitor that gets slightly charged up above zero on the output side. Most designs use a sort of bleeder resistor (1meg seems common) to eliminate this problem. Anyhow worth a try. Let us know how it goes.

Good Listening
Bruce
Re: Source loop [message #96999 is a reply to message #96998] Mon, 18 September 2023 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1059
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I'm trying to understand some of the terminology Bruce. My knowledge of electronics is rather thin. The Aphex unit has a switch to accommodate consumer level gear if that's part of what your conveying. My original thought was kind of like how I'd used it prior which was from a stand alone phono into the Aphex then into any input of the preamp. Just that this preamp now has the internal RIAA circuit built in, so I'd wondered if an added output would function about the same as how I'd utilized it before. The two way on-on switch just allowing the preamp to function somewhat as is stock. Hope I make sense. I think you for your skilled advice.
Re: Source loop [message #97000 is a reply to message #96999] Mon, 18 September 2023 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18651
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I think it will work too. I sometimes parallel the preamp output of a device to two inputs without any sort of buffer amp. That then parallels the input shunts of the two input devices, which are usually around 50kΩ. They aren't always 50kΩ - some are higher, some lower - but the pseudo-standard for unbalanced RCA inputs is 50kΩ.

So when I parallel two inputs, the load drops to 25kΩ. Some devices have a slight but noticeable drop in sound level when I do that. But they don't change their spectral balance, at least not in my experience, not with the gear I've been using. If a device did, then I would know it could not drive the 25kΩ load, and would need to use a buffer amp of some sort.

I think that's the biggest issue. If you can parallel the inputs and the sound doesn't change - you're golden. And since most devices have preamp outputs that could actually drive a much lower impedance than that - most could drive an impedance as low as 1kΩ - having load impedance drop from 50kΩ to 25kΩ is almost insignificant.
Re: Source loop [message #97001 is a reply to message #97000] Mon, 18 September 2023 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1059
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Thanks both of you for reassuring my little scheme. I was hesitant to just damn the torpedo's and start drilling into the casework without some seasoned reason behind it. I can follow kit plans, but, design wise I'm a tenderfoot. Green light now.
Re: Source loop [message #97233 is a reply to message #97001] Wed, 29 November 2023 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1059
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I finally got around to implementing a little switch on the front panel and an extra output on the back to send the signal to the Aphex unit. I just used an unused input to bring it on home Jerome, the Aphex enhanced signal back into the preamp. Works just fine, though I'm not going to switch during use back and forth. The Aphex already has channel defeat buttons to hear the source out of the circuit.

I've only listened to phono so far with this arrangement. I noticed that I needed more engagement of the Aphex knobs to attain the level of effect that I'd get using the prior phono, (Graham Slee) with 24v power supply. But the quality with the Transcendent line preamp was much higher quality. Smooth like baby's feet. I've got to hear what it does for cd next. Spect I'll be twisting those knobs the other way with it.

I got wind about this processor some years back from the KAB audio website when they were a distributor for it. Their write up explained that it's not the electronics that lack the "sparkle" and presence in audio playback. It's the source. I believe that's true. So, I'm no purist in what gives me a sense of reality with home audio. It's more than a loudness button or an equalizer. Works for me though. This link gives a little insight for it's use. Minus the jaw drop aspect.
https://www.soundoctor.com/aphex.htm
Re: Source loop [message #97234 is a reply to message #97233] Wed, 29 November 2023 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18651
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Wow, Rusty, that's an interesting little box. I had never heard of it before. And since I like the sound of the "Rumors" album mentioned in the link, I'm curious.

Thanks for the link!
Re: Source loop [message #97235 is a reply to message #97234] Wed, 29 November 2023 10:54 Go to previous message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1059
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Cool Wayne. I've never, ever preferred the phono sound from my setup using it without the processor involved. Even with the new line preamps internal phono circuit. Which is quite good on its own. That spawned my desire to make a modification to get the Aphex involved again using the phono signal. Now though, I'll be able to use the other inputs for cd and even the old Sound Craftsman fm tuner I bought back in the 80's.
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