Home » xyzzy » Dungeon » Modern Monetary Theory (or, how I stopped worrying about the natl debt.)
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96541 is a reply to message #96537] Tue, 21 March 2023 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1094
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
I'm wondering Wayne after re reading your response, how much of an emphasis you would require of the financial part of our economy to be regulated? If you take into account the FIRE, (finance-banking, insurance, real estate) sector and how it affects the economy by historically driving up assets, wealth speculation and tax diversion. With the amount of social upheaval it's caused and the amount of monetary governmental bail out lavished with no punitive repercussion has caused in our national debt. Do you feel that is an aspect of restructuring?

Does the amount annually now spent on the military industrial complex, our maintaining over 700 military installations worldwide and our forays in foreign entanglements adding trillions to the national debt need reevaluation?

Can we shore up our Social Security system by raising the income level on payroll tax? And can we provide universal health care, Medicare for all as a social subsidy? Or do we continue to rely on the free market and the insurance industry as we have been to further burden the working class being able to make ends meet.

And how far does the national debt have to come down? I ask because your proposals seem mainly aimed at a public personal responsibility issues that government has indulged excessive wasteful social programs to alleviate. Some of the punitive measures I don't know if they could be legislated constitutionally. In lieu of the financial, military and unearned tax diversion aspects have on our federal debt load.

I think there are issues with some of our stop gap social spending. As it doesn't address the chronic core issues with our economic doctrine. Our free market trickle down supply side economy has been a long drawn out study in wealth disparity and an erosion of an ability to thrive in an economic system captured by financial engineering to make as much, grab as much and pay as little back to societies benefit. Our industry has been depleted, our cost of living skyrocket and our inflation adjusted wages stagnated for decades. Now our Federal Reserve system requires the working class to endure more pain along with inflation by putting people out of work. While once again, bailing out the investor class.

I don't perceive any conscious effort in our national discourse to look at the structure of what our economic system has evolved into. And what can be changed structurally to get things rolling more smoothly. It's as if what Margaret Thatcher claimed, "There is no other way". And we have to live within this framework that we have. That as far as I can tell, isn't working. For the majority.
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96542 is a reply to message #96541] Tue, 21 March 2023 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

You know, Rusty, my thoughts are just that - thoughts. I don't waste much time pondering an exact mechanism for accomplishing any of those things because I don't expect any of it to happen. Too many people with too many other agendas. So I'm not even looking at ways to influence anything politically.

I would love to see us travel down those kinds of roads though. If we even began to contemplate them, we could find solutions that fit. I'm sure of that. But I'm equally sure that many of those things aren't popular with most of the folks pushing the cart.
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96543 is a reply to message #96542] Tue, 21 March 2023 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
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As always Wayne I admire your candor. I know it's a hard road to hoe. It's just been my desire to try and understand the way things were before in history, now at this time and what could be later on. If thoughts become a common desire, things can happen. Good things.
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96547 is a reply to message #96543] Wed, 22 March 2023 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
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Here's something for anyone here to get a handle on, a sense of, if one can dismiss whatever ideology or preconceived notions of the way our economy and our political system functions today. And learn about what factors that are driving this maelstrom of events going on here and abroad. The structural corrosion underpinning why things are as they're said to be. It will be worth investing time in absorbing this.

Dennis Kucinich & Michael Hudson on the banking situation and a lot more.

https://michael-hudson.com/2023/03/with-dennis-kucinich-on-the-financialized-economy-collapse/
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96550 is a reply to message #96547] Fri, 24 March 2023 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1094
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Sometimes I make comments on a blog done by Robert Reich. He was the labor secretary under the Clinton administration. His recent blog was over the hearing with the Tik Tok executive and the implication that there is a threat to our National Security.

Distinguishing between a Chinese challenge and a Chinese enemy.:

A few years ago it was Huawei posing an ominous National Security risk. Recently those dangerous Spy balloons were a National Security risk. Those Chinese are sending up fighter planes when our carriers in the South China Sea send up reconnaissance aircraft. Imagine that. Are there any Chinese warships lurking in the Gulf of Mexico? Everything gets amped up with China, everything's a National Security risk.

Paranoia runs deep when people and nations themselves lose control of their grip on reality. The reality is our dominance and standing in the world has diminished. The most populated portion of the world has found itself able to exceed what we've taken for granted since WWII. Industrial and economic dominance. To the point of breaking away from our dollar hegemony. Which we've used to try to corral nations we disagree with using our sanctions. Which never work and never change the will of the nation directed at. Like Cuba for instance. Russia sidestepped it like a tango dancer.

We can't internally face the fact we're our own worst enemy. That our own economic doctrine has over the decades weakened our dominance abroad and impoverished our population within. So, lashing out for National Security culprits is a copout to examining our very own dysfunction. And our media goes right along with whatever latest National Security risk that blows up. We're dumb, seriously dumb. The Chinese must view our behavior as if watching an old Keystone Cops movie. Laughable, if it weren't so dangerous.
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96610 is a reply to message #96550] Fri, 07 April 2023 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
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Location: Kansas City Missouri
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Banking and finance capitalism goes hand in hand. Banking's profit is someone's debt. Trouble is, banking is more than loans here and there for cars and homes. It's speculative too. It uses profits and deposits to tease out more profit by investing in asset stripping from private equity, ramping up real estate holdings, playing in the bond and stock market with derivatives and hedge betting. You name it they're playing at the table at the casino. And when they get into trouble either from outright fraud, like the housing crisis of 08 and more recently with the bond market. They don't have enough holdings to cover their deposits. Who ya gonna call? Daddy Warbucks Chairman Powell and the Federal Reserve. He'll write a blank check for us every time.

There is one bank, over 100 years old now in North Dakota that is a publicly, state owned bank in this country that don't play those games. Not allowed. They're in it to serve the public's needs. Bread & butter loans for farmers, companies and people that need those services. No hanky panky no fraud. What ever profits made go into the states coffers for the needs of... The state of North Dakota.

Richard Wolff points this out in this blog. And the outright stonewall put up to duplicate this type of bank nationwide. Presumably for the usual reasons. Free enterprise and keeping socialism in check. There's somethings though that free enterprise can not and will not be able to provide. Service without maximizing profit.
Socialism can and should work right along side with capitalism. As a benefit to the population at large. Keeping the cost of living from being speculated upon.

Banking is one of the natural monopolies that should be socialized. But the political process as it is, being bribed by lobbying and campaign financing insures only one successful little bank in North Dakota be the only example of socialized banking. What a shame that issues such as wokeness, critical race theory and transgender identity take precedence over the real issue as the banking system is. Like the Wizard of Oz. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

https://www.rdwolff.com/the_jimmy_dore_show_this_is_why_the_banks_are_failing_now
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96682 is a reply to message #96610] Sun, 07 May 2023 07:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1094
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Reading the latest on current banking solvency, the chacterization is the notion of too big to fail meaning allowing the banking industries hostage taking of our economy. Their proxy insurance holder being the Federal Reserve system. Their cops on the take are the regulatory agencies. Their law firm are the legislatures, and their chief spokesperson the US president. Our democracy is captured by private banking for the enrichment of a tiny minority of the population. Their main function is not of commerce or industry. It's simply speculation.

Any small bank can fail with no repercussion, but at some point in the hierarchy of banking, holdings and speculative assets on the skids create a domino effect. With the backstop only of the Federal Reserve to "Bailout" the investments that go beyond the 250K FDIC guarantee. The notion of the government taking over control of such an institution is considered an act of socialism. A term most despised in our capitalism democracy.

So now as has been bullied time and again when our legislative body gets the notion to deal with government spending by threatening defaulting on government payments. Purely on an utterly false premise of the debt ceiling. Demanding that spending be curtailed. Which always, always is social in nature. Keep in mind where the lion's share of socialized support is going.

Our banking masters.
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96716 is a reply to message #96682] Sun, 21 May 2023 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1094
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Having just watched the segment on 60 Minutes about Pentagon price gouging makes me wonder if the current Debt Ceiling fiasco will address any "trimming" of the military budget. Or any impetus by the government to force corporations making war material to adhere to an ethical cost or face litigation and taxation to their unearned investment income. While the debt ceiling itself is a blatant hostage technique to demand compliance politically. It's all theatrics and a farce.

But the ridiculous harm it's capable of is too real. Unfortunately, radicalism is a big part of the political show these days. While threats to create economic chaos if reining in the budget by short changing social programs isn't had, the military budged gets larger and larger every year with no oversight, no audits, no limits. Priorities seem convoluted.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/weapons-contractors-price-gouging-pentagon-60-minutes-transcript-2023-05-21/
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96720 is a reply to message #96716] Thu, 25 May 2023 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
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Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
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Great article from a great economist, Bill Mitchell. Godfather of MMT. Here talking about the insularity or closed off nature of academic economists. An example of GroupThink as he calls it. Another great economist of the non-orthodox variety, Michael Hudson just refers to it as "tunnel vision". The inability or deliberate habit of not perceiving the need to look beyond their narrow abstract concepts. Kind of like Libertarian's with their singular micro economic view grafted upon the macro realm of thinking.

Apparently politics and the world in general are more comfortable with trying to put a square peg in a round hole. With western neoliberal economic doctrine intrenched that regularly reinforces this paradigm as Margaret Thatcher said, "There is no alternative". No alternative to GroupThink that is.

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=60864
Re: Modern Monetary Theory [message #96735 is a reply to message #96720] Thu, 01 June 2023 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1094
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
An intelligent conversation on the pragmatic economic method of China is having on the international worlds stage. And the equally negative resistance of the western worlds neoliberal stance is, against realizing positive change to it's methods of debt servicing to it's faltering economies. Really interesting. I think.

https://michael-hudson.com/2023/05/achieving-by-undermining/
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