Home » Audio » Thermionic Emissions » Me Want Valve Amp. 8^)
Me Want Valve Amp. 8^) [message #8989] Sun, 29 May 2005 10:23 Go to next message
Dave Williams is currently offline  Dave Williams
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
So, after a couple of years of contemplation, I'm getting serious about getting a tube amp; probably a kit. Now I know the "which tube amp kit" thread has been done about a gazillion times, but I hope I can appeal to folks here for some more thoughts.

Basically, I'd say my budget is $750-$800 or so. Musical tastes are all over the map; jazz and fusion of all kinds, classic and progressive rock (old and new), various acoustic ensembles, and burgeoning interest in choral and orchestral.

I'm after balance and good extension both directions, good speed and detail, but doesn't need to be the last word (still want CD's listenable, please). Sloppy bass is a major pet peeve, and I don't like systems that are too bright.

Currently under consideration are:

DIY Hi-Fi Ella or Joplin 2A3
Stoetkit
Paramours*
Decware*

* I'm very intrigued by the SET thing, but I won't have the budget to go after new speakers for a while, and my current speaks are only around 91 db/1W which isn't going to cut it. I really like various small-scale acoustic music, but I also like to rock out sometimes and listen to a fair amount of pretty demanding music, although not at huge volumes. Also, while I'd like to try some of Wayne's speakers when I DO go for new ones, I'm not sure I want to be constrained to only uber-high efficiency speakers; the open-baffle thing is something I'd really like to try.

So here are some specific questions people can maybe help with; or maybe not, 8^):

- Anyone heard both Ella and Joplin that can compare?
Obviously stock Ella has bags more power, but various things I've read indicate that the thing to do with Ella is wire her in triode mode with no feedback which comes in I guess around 12W or so. So I'm curious how they'd compare in that configuration where the power differential is limited.

- How might Ella and Stoetkit stack up against each other fidelity-wise? Respective scope for upgrades?

- I recall that someone on here (Bill E., I think?) has an Ella that has seen significant experimentation/upgrade. Curious about how, with some energy expended, the sound has progressed, and how you feel it stacks up to the other players in the field.

- I'd prefer not to have to shell out for a preamp as well. As I understand it, the Ella now has 2 pairs inputs, although is passive volume control. Is that the same deal with Stoetkit, Jr.?

- What options am I not considering that I should be?

Thanks for any and all responses.

Cheers,

Dave

Re:Me Too! [message #8990 is a reply to message #8989] Sun, 29 May 2005 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
By taking the equity out of Ella I'm about (Friday) to pull the trigger on a very (for me) expensive kit.
The really wonderful dilemma you face is that any of the choices will make you a "proud papa" and yield a lot of listening pleasure.
That's knowledge re-inforced for me by listening to the Norh SE-9.
Even the most humble circuits do some things well. Ansd even the best have shortcomings.
Ella is a great design that is excellent ouit of the box. With the mods I did it was just great. It did some things, dynamics and low-distortion at high levels, better than most. But you don't "hear ino the music" the way you do with SET's. Some SET's. The Paramour turns your head only now and then. The Norh all the time but eventually you realise there is a problem with the transition from mids to highs even ay low levels. And the bass; full and weighty are the EL-34's in push-pull but as an SET kinda overblown.
That's what modifications are about: raising the quality of strengths and eliminating weaknesses. Genetic engineering.
I'm going to guess here based on familiarity with the 2A3 as well as actually hearing the EL-34 in P=P and SET side by side. The 2A3 Joplin should,.....should, sound best of the group you name. On the Magnequest Forum there's also a "Seth" P-P 2A3 which you can build in nearly kit form. I'm not sure of the price, close to $800 I think.

Stoetkit [message #8991 is a reply to message #8989] Sun, 29 May 2005 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

The Stoetkit has two inputs and a volume control. Sweeeeet sound and great looks too. It gets my vote.



Re: Me Want Valve Amp. 8^) [message #8992 is a reply to message #8989] Sun, 29 May 2005 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
With 91dB speakers I wouldn't consider anything less powerful than an EL34/6550/KT88 amp like the Ella. I listen to 91dB speakers with an Ella (great), a 300B (OK for music that's not too dynamic) and a 2A3 (grossly inadequate for anything but solo acoustic guitar). There are several good EL34 amps out there and the Ella doesn't have the boutique quality parts of some of the more expensive ones, but it's a very good value for the price. Just my two cents.

Re:Me Too! [message #8993 is a reply to message #8990] Sun, 29 May 2005 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Williams is currently offline  Dave Williams
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Thanks, Bill

I konw they're all great products which is why the decision is difficult. The "hear into the music" thing is exactly what tempts me about SET's, just wary of the tradeoffs associated with that choice. I've a feeling I'll just have to prepare myself to ultimately have a couple of amps. Oh darn... 8^)

Have you enumerated anywhere the various upgrades you've done to your Ella? Is yours wired point-to-point? That appears to be a kind of a recent change to the stock item.

I'm glad you mentioned the MQ DIY stuff because I'd seen the Horus there before, but forgotten all about it. The Seth is new since I last looked there. Also looks a really nice option, but from perusing the MQ prices, it seems to me it would be hard to do for much less than $1000 just in iron/chokes.

Out of curiosity, what's your impending purchase?

Dave

Re: Stoetkit [message #8994 is a reply to message #8991] Sun, 29 May 2005 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Williams is currently offline  Dave Williams
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Thanks for the recco, Wayne. I have noted over time all the great things you've had to say about this little number. That's actually how I found out about it. 8^)

Re: Me Want Valve Amp. 8^) [message #8995 is a reply to message #8992] Sun, 29 May 2005 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Williams is currently offline  Dave Williams
Messages: 9
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Certainly I'll be upgrading speakers at some point in the future, probably to something at least somewhat more efficient. But it's not going to be immediate after I've shelled out for an amp (and probably a new source as well), so ideally I'd like something that will be at least tolerable for a while with the current speaks.

Ella does seem like pretty good value, and with lots of options for upgrade.

Am I also correct that getting a decent tube complement will be a lot cheaper on an EL34 platform than 2A3?

Re: Me Want Valve Amp. 8^) [message #8996 is a reply to message #8995] Sun, 29 May 2005 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I think the Ella is good amp too. Very good value from a good company, in my opinion.


Re: Me Want Valve Amp. 8^) [message #8997 is a reply to message #8989] Sun, 29 May 2005 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Russell Black is currently offline  Russell Black
Messages: 3
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Try one of these. I've got one, it sounds fantastic and the price is right. The pushpull MAG15 looks pretty good, but I havn't heard one.
Gabe is a nice guy to deal with and I have no doubts about the quality of his offerings.



Re:Me Too! [message #8998 is a reply to message #8993] Sun, 29 May 2005 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Ella upgrades from the archives;
For those of you scoring at home the mods effected her in this order from major to minor:
Auricaps
TKD Volume Pot
Choke
Schottky Diodes
Triode mode
Kiwame Resistors
Rear-mounting the volume pot
Vampire female RCA's, CCC Magnet wire, wire dress
Begin with the choke that comes with for $19 and the stock Valve Art EL-34's are excellent. Easy to roll but the 6922/6DJ8's have greater influence. Stoetkit tubes are cheap, too.


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