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Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66291]

Thu, 24 February 2011 08:53

Frihed89
Messages: 30
Registered: June 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Baron

I have a really small room: 3x4M and the speakers I have are on the wide axis, so that means there are only 3M from my listening position to the facing wall. I currently have Audio Note K speakers in the corners and they are fine with 300B, but I just ordered a 2A3 amp and my experience, even in this small room, is that I need somewhat more sensitive speakers to lower the distortion on loud classical pieces.

I get closer and closer to building the Pi-4s, but with a 15" woofer, I really worry that this will cause all kinds of nasty vibrations, esp against the back wall. There really are no side walls for more than 1M and then they are only about 1.25M high (i knocked them down and just left a bit of the old walls for the AN speakers).

What do you think? Will the Pis defibrillate my heart at these distances?

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Re: Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66296 is a reply to message #66291]

Thu, 24 February 2011 14:03

Matts
Messages: 359
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

Are you going to have a volume control somewhere? I think you're confusing "size" of the woofer with "loudness" and that's not always the case. Try to equate "size" with "quality" instead...especially if you use the 2226. No problem listening at very quiet levels and enjoying great sound quality!

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Re: Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66298 is a reply to message #66296]

Thu, 24 February 2011 15:30

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18682
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I agree. The controlled directivity and response characteristics will undoubtedly make the four π sound much more controlled and refined. The reverberant field is more uniform. The room has less influence on a speaker like this because of its directivity.

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Re: Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66299 is a reply to message #66296]

Thu, 24 February 2011 15:33

Frihed89
Messages: 30
Registered: June 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Baron

I do understand, but we are talking about the likes of Sibelius, Mahler and Bruckner symphonies, all of which have a great deal of dynamic range. If you want to hear the quiet parts, you have to turn up the volume with my speakers. The distortion becomes more obvious on the loud parts as the amp comes closer to clipping.

Yes, I have a preamp. But I want to hear the whole piece at one preamp volume setting, both the quiet parts and the loud hectic parts.

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Re: Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66301 is a reply to message #66299]

Thu, 24 February 2011 18:05

Matts
Messages: 359
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

I listen to a lot of classical music- and play violin in a community orchestra. You'll just hear whatever the dynamic range in the recording is- if your amps are accurate and you set volume at neutral. Is that a problem? Do you want speakers with compression? The 4Pi's are very dynamic and they won't cost you dynamics, but they don't compress the music. You seem nervous about the large driver, but I get real nervous with smaller ones...haha

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Re: Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66308 is a reply to message #66301]

Fri, 25 February 2011 04:28

Frihed89
Messages: 30
Registered: June 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Baron

Matts, Thanks for helping me. Please stick with me, if you can because maybe I am confused or on the wrong track.

My Audio Note speakers are "about" 90dB sensitive, according to AN. This means they are probably < but close to 90dB.

When I encounter music that has slow, quiet parts and fast, loud parts, I set my preamp volume so I can hear the quiet parts reasonably well and can hear the louder parts at volumes that are not ear-damaging. So, there is a reasonable amount of room between the max and min volume I hear. I never change the volume after that.

Is that the wrong approach?

Now, I have a feeling that, because my amps aren't that sensitive and because the max power my amp is putting out is between 3 to 3.5W, I am hearing some pretty high distortion levels when the music is fast and loud. The music actually sounds pleasant enough as a whole, but listen carefully and the inner resolution is gone. I have a feeling that there is something harmonic going on with this distortion to make it sound sort of pleasant.

I have a 300B amp (10W). The problem isn't nearly as bad during loud passages.

Why am I determined to listen with a 2A3 or even a 45 amp? Because I prefer their tone and character to the 300B.

So, do I solve the problem with Pi-4s: Will the much higher sensitivity of the P-4s and the fact that it may even be easier to drive than my current speakers give me:
1. Lower distortion in the peaks;
2. Not overpower my room, especially the bass bounce off the wall right above my sofa, which would be 2-3 m from the speakers, depending how far they should be from the walls behind them.

Am I asking for too much? Actually, I want a pair of Davore Fidelity Orangutangs, but they are far out of my price range.

Thanks for listening.

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Re: Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66311 is a reply to message #66308]

Fri, 25 February 2011 08:26

Matts
Messages: 359
Registered: May 2009

Grand Master

I think you're on the right track. With the higher efficiency speakers, you will be working your amp less. ~90dB speakers are not even hi eff, and there's a huge difference between them and Pi 4's at around ~98dB. Your system will make the same volume with much less strain. With a very linear tube (like 2A3) and very efficient speakers that instantly react, you'll get what you want. The dynamics will be virtually the same as the recording, and you can adjust your volume control for the min or max you want.

It sounds as though you're thinking of a 15" mid-woofer as some type of beast, but it's not. It just responds to the amp- whether output is 0.1 watt, or 1,000 watts. Well-designed one is just a much more efficient motor that has a much larger cone area to spread the work to. They are a pleasure to listen to at lower levels, and SET needs a more efficient speaker. With SET, the bass might even "seem" a little quieter because it's so clean and undistorted, and many people switching from smaller drivers don't even realize how distorted the bass is with them.

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Re: Pi 4 Owners: How Big is your "space" [message #66312 is a reply to message #66291]

Fri, 25 February 2011 08:36

EL Jack
Messages: 5
Registered: February 2011

Esquire

I have the same size room (although mine is a loft and therefore a bigger space acoustically).

As fans of Audio Asylum know, it was my posting there about wanting speakers to play Mahler and Bruckner that eventually led me to the Pi 4.

The exact problem with my other speakers was that they would sound great at low and moderate volumes, but congest and compress the sound at the tuttis of big symphonic works.

There is no compression or congestion in the mid-bass with the Pi 4s. They will easily do 100+ decibels on 10 tube watts.

They don't overload the room and the 15-inch woofers are very delicate when the sound is soft, if that's your concern.

I just listened to the Bruno Walter Bruckner 9 this weekend, and it confirmed that I made the right move with these speakers.

I've heard too many great speakers to say these are "flawless" but they are certainly a fantastic deal and they do the big orchestral stuff better through the midbass than the last pair of Wilson Sashas that I listened to.

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