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Re: wal-mart [message #56713 is a reply to message #56711] Fri, 19 August 2005 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I knew I would not get an answer. Say Wayne; do you have employees working for Pi?
(Don't worry, my union days are over.)

Re: wal-mart [message #56714 is a reply to message #56712] Fri, 19 August 2005 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
That's why I'm now self-employed. From what I've seen of corporate America, it's not about making a superior product (whatever the criteria) but about screwing someone over to get ahead. It's all about use or be used. The romantic notions of a unified American workforce making the world's products are long gone. The game has changed and we are not looking too good right now......Colin

Re: wal-mart [message #56715 is a reply to message #56714] Fri, 19 August 2005 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheetah is currently offline  cheetah
Messages: 70
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
There is much wrong in "Corporate America" today. All too often descions are made based on how the will affect this quarter's bottom line. When that becomes the driving force, it gets to be very difficult to see the forrest for the trees.

You have many company's giving raises that do not even keep up with the increase in the cost of living, let alone provide a decent health care package. But we can't place all the blame at the employer's door step. When the annual increase in health care benefits runs between 10% and 30%, well it takes a huge increase in business to just keep pace. Most company's simply can not afford to absorb those kind of increases, so they begin to cut services provided and pass a larger share of the costs on to the employee.

Some how Congress needs to find the courage to over haul the way health care is provided and paid for, in America. And no, I do not think socialized health care is the way to go.

Re: wal-mart [message #56716 is a reply to message #56711] Fri, 19 August 2005 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Damir is currently offline  Damir
Messages: 1005
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey, I said that we over here fought for "capitalism", or "Western way", or so - and get the horror, caricature. And it`s not entirely our fault - almost all the banks here are in foreign property, MMF, liabilities...
And also - I don`t imagine US citizens like "fat capitalists"...huh.


Re: wal-mart [message #56717 is a reply to message #56704] Fri, 19 August 2005 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheetah is currently offline  cheetah
Messages: 70
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Manualblock,

First off let me say that I have no love for Walmart. I don't generally shop there. The stores are so crowded that you can't get out with out waiting in line for ever. I prefer to shop where it is not such a hassle.

That said, why is it Walmart's fault that the emergency rooms are filled with illegals looking to get health care for their children. Why is it Walmart's fault that so many communities bend over backwards to give these large corporations such huge tax incentives. "For their part, Walmart does provide good opportunities for those who demonstrate the desire to work. How do i know this, my wife worked for them for several years. Yes they hire at or slightly above minimum wage, but its not that hard to get into higher paying positions, if you show you want to work."

If our Congressmen would step up to the plate and close our borders to illegal immigration, then the problem would go away in time. If our Congress men would stop giving away the candy store inexchange for votes, then hospitals would not be required to provide free health care to any one who walks in with out any insurance. If out Legislatures would level the tax burdens on corporations, then companies could afford to expand with out seeking tax abatments.

At some point some one needs to step up and say that the maddness stops here.

Re: wal-mart [message #56718 is a reply to message #56715] Fri, 19 August 2005 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
We already have socialised health care only it goes to illegal aliens; who utilise according to some studies upwards of 11% of the average states health care budget.
The feds want the cheap labor and until they decide to secure our borders the situation will only get worse.

Re: wal-mart [message #56719 is a reply to message #56717] Fri, 19 August 2005 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Now we are getting somewhere.
Before I answer your post though I must state that I didn't say Wal-Mart is at fault forcing illegals to use the hospitals; I say Wal-Mart, by not providing the very basics of health care to it's employees even though these towns and cities give a generous tax abatement to this company, forces even their employees to use the hospitals; since who has a thousand dollar deductible on a minimum wage job?
I have no experience working there so am not qualified to speak on their advancement potential; but look at the ratio of minimum wage workers there to above average paid workers and that should settle that story.
The corporations get huge tax deferments in ways only our accountants can even begin to explain. Look at the total of corporate tax revenue records per-capita. The averge Joe pays more than the aggregate corporate tax liability.
I think your argument seeks to define personal participation in the economic system via a paycheck. Well; here the deck is stacked. Can you own stock in these companies and thereby share in the profits and shut guys like me up? No; not really. The accounting regulations tilt the board so that you will always enjoy a return on your capital investment in American industry of about 6%. That inludes risk factors you accept as part of your being allowed to even invest you paltry sums.
Why Wal-Mart; what makes them the bad guys? With their business model of searching aggressively for the weakest and most vulnerable sections of our country; making promises of jobs and increased wealth for these desperate towns and cities, then providing very little or nothing in the way of increased revenue and locking those communities into bad agreements. That is their crime. Searching the world over for goods made by slave labor or in sweatshop conditions drives the value of all American goods and labor down. How do they do this, by manipulating the political system in the most vulnerable communities.
Wheew!

Re: wal-mart [message #56720 is a reply to message #56719] Fri, 19 August 2005 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wunhuanglo is currently offline  wunhuanglo
Messages: 912
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
By the same token they offer goods, however shoddy you believe them to be, at prices that people at the bottom of the economic ladder can afford - where else would "working poor" people buy stuff they need these days? The people who make that stuff might be paid sub-slave wages; would they be better off with no alternative but to pick through the garbage dumps?

It's a double-edged sword. WM might pay slave wages - are those people better off with no wages? WM doesn't ask very much of their employees qualifications at hiring- I doubt most of the clerks there are biding their time waiting for the job as CEO of Westinghouse to open up. Should WM pay their staff a so-called living wage plus bennies and raise their prices so high that those who turn to WM as the only source of afordable stuff spend all their money at Goodwill and in thrift stores?

Look, there's a lot of goddamn misery in this world and I sure as fuck wish there wasn't. There's no doubt in my mind that if all the self-professed christians in america acted on the beliefs they claim to hold there'd be a lot more equity. No CEO needs 500X or 1000X times the income of their lowest paid employee; corporate boards these days are just a facade for theft from stockholders fueled by insatiable greed; there's evil upon evil and I don't dispute that for a minute.

But there's also an inter-relationship between all the parties involved that does benefit all who participate - it may not be shared equitably but it's not clear to me that if WM disappeared tomorrow or never existed in the first place that their thousands of employees and their supporting vendors/contractors would be better off without them.

Re: wal-mart [message #56721 is a reply to message #56720] Fri, 19 August 2005 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheetah is currently offline  cheetah
Messages: 70
Registered: May 2009
Viscount
Also, in many cases it is the governments of these third world nations who limit the wages, not the companies who build there. Yes these multi-national companies are atracted to the third world by lower emplyment costs. However many soon find that they must begin to offer more to keep their employees coming back to work.

WARNING- anecdotal evidence being sited here...

Case in point. A very good friend of mine is an engineer at Hoover. In the early nineties Hoover built several plants in Mexico. They were attracted by low wages and big tax encentives offered by the Mexican government. Soon after these palnts opened Hoover began to notice a pattern, in their emplyees behavior. After the workers were paid, they would not show up for work for severak days. With money in their pockets, many chose to party rather than come to work. Hoover sought to provide more to the employee, as an encentive to come to work, but were barred from paying any more by Mexican labor laws. The company began to offer free health service, dental service, eye exams for their emplyees and their families. The kicker was, the employee had to maintain an acceptable standard of attendance to qualify.

To end this, its not always, or only the Big, Bad American Corporations who are to blame for the exploitation of the third world labor market. Blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the politicians from these countries as well.

Re: wal-mart [message #56722 is a reply to message #56713] Fri, 19 August 2005 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18669
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

The cabinet shop and machine shop are both contracted. So they take care of their own payrolls and stuff like that. I just submit bid requests when I make new designs, and after that point it's a matter of placing orders and paying invoices. I also work very closely with Monte Vogt on many projects. Monte is a mechanical engineer who has been a friend of mine since school days.


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