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Somewhat hard to compare... [message #46599 is a reply to message #46598] Tue, 29 March 2005 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Garland garland is currently offline  Garland garland
Messages: 22
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
...Since I pretty much switched systems all at once, going from 200Watt Adcom amp w/ the 86dB Vandersteens to Paramour 2.5W 2A3 amps with the Theater 4s. The most noteworthy improvement with the tubes and Pi's was in the presentation of the musical landscape, ie. soundstage. Instrumental images are more full size as if the musicians are in the room with you. There is hollow body to stringed instruments and columns of air eminating from wind instruments. Vocalists are standing in front of you, and are moving their heads and filling their lungs. With the other system, the music was beautiful but more restrained and missing the little clues to the actual real performance. Now I have macro and micro dynamics at the same time. Minor changes in the circuitry of the amps or preamp are readily audible, not just "I think I hear a difference". The listening sessions are sometimes very relaxing and other times are very exciting. I always can't wait to get a chance to listen! I have only moderate desire to up-grade or move on to other equipment, which for this neurotic, compulsive tweaker is really saying something.
Another characteristic of this tube/Pi system is how very different each recording sounds from each other! With lesser systems, there is a certain kind of glomming together of sound. This system really pressurizes the room in a unique way with each recording. This pressure of sound is where so much of the illusion of being transported to the recording venue resides. When I hear it even before the music starts, I am easily able to suspend belief and am transported back in time to be in the presence of the artists as they lift their instruments and commence playing. previously, I've only really heard this kind of sound from the best analog/ vinyl systems but this is with a modest CD player/ DAC. I can't wait for the kids to grow up a bit more so I can unpack the old TT, build a Phono preamp, and really cook!

Hope this helps!

Garland

Re: large woofers, small room, sound quality? [message #46600 is a reply to message #46589] Tue, 29 March 2005 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Henry,

Out of curiosity, how does your old DJ gear sound in a small room? Even though my speaker system is built with JBL pro drivers that were designed to handle hundreds of watts, it still sounds excellent with only a 10W amp in a 12x15 room. One of the benefits of using high power handling and high sensitivity drivers in a home environment is that you're nowhere close to the drivers' compression region. Result is amazing dynamics. Just make sure the motors present an easy load to the amp.

To me, I think dynamics is one of the biggest difference between a PI and a set of "audiophile" speakers. For example, take you average 100W 88dB/w/m audiophile speaker. To get up to 105dB, you'll be operating at minimum 50% of max power handling, where compression and distortion would certainly be present (realistically, 50% of max power would only give you 102 to 103 dB). At max power, you'll probably experience about 4dB of compression, yielding max dB of 104dB.

A PI speaker with 95dB/w/m and power handling of 400W would only need 10W of power to reach 105dB. This 10W represents only 2.5% of max power handling. Hardly breaking a sweat. Max dB would be around 118dB, factoring in for compression. Nobody should be listening this loud on a continuous basis, but the effect is very noticable at moderate levels because it lets all the musical peaks through.

You had some concerns about using a large 15" driver. A large 15" driver tends to beam if you take it into the midrange, which can be a bad or good thing. For PI speakers, Wayne has worked this to his advantage such that the directivity of the woofer and horn are about the same at the crossover region.

In terms of colouration, you get what you pay for. There are certainly cheap hi-eff drivers that sound "honky", but many of the more sophisticated (and expensive) hi-eff drivers sound very neutral. I noticed you mentioned the Magnum to augment the Fostex. A less expensive option would be the Delta12LF that's used in the Theater 3 PI, which I have for Home Theater. It'll take you down to the mid 30's with a box under 4ft^3.

Gar.

Re: large woofers, small room, sound quality? [message #46605 is a reply to message #46600] Tue, 29 March 2005 21:21 Go to previous message
Henry Eng is currently offline  Henry Eng
Messages: 8
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
I never brought the DJ gear into the home. I always thought pro stuff should be used in the club or hall, and at home use the smaller consumer grade stuff.

After going to several business parties recently and a recent black-tie affair in a big hall, I have an urge to bring a stack into the home. The speakers were huge, the sound was like a giant wall crashing down at you, and not only did you hear the music, you felt it in your chest. Now that's what I call a sound system! Too bad they were clipping. I could hear the compression artifacts.

Because my rooms aren't that large I'm a bit worried that the big drivers won't open up properly or have enough room to breath since they were designed for high output in mind (for concert halls, etc)

-Henry




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