Home » Audio » General » Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good.
Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3642] Wed, 30 August 2006 20:31 Go to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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A little glitch in the theories.

Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3643 is a reply to message #3642] Wed, 30 August 2006 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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either I'm totally missing the question or the question you asked is like comparing anything subjective. Why do some piano players like a Yamaha, and other like a Steinway? some play strats and some play les paul. single coil, humbuckers, in phase or out. There's only few woods drums are made of. Mostly maple, birch or mahogany (or a combination) and how many plies?

They are trained musicians and have a gift/talent/training to hear quality sound. but there is high quality sound that comes from a strat, or a les paul. high quality sound comes from a klipsch or a Keff.

Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3646 is a reply to message #3643] Thu, 31 August 2006 06:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Right; the issue being if it is so hard to tell what equipment sounds better that we must use DBT studies and very intricate measuring devices to enable us to hear minute differences in the sound of audio gear and there-by make a distinction regarding which equipment sounds better than the rest of the equipment...then how come musicians can enter a crowded room full of equipment and within a few minutes be in total agreement about which units have the best sound. This is without using any of that rigamarole suggested by audio reviewers.
Does that make any sense? LC had the idea; the rest seem confused.
Thats my question; how do they know if it is so hard to define this?
I make no judgement; just curious about this little subject.

Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3667 is a reply to message #3646] Thu, 31 August 2006 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Martinelli is currently offline  Bill Martinelli
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First I don’t think DBT is necessary. I think its fun to do and surprises a lot of people. Not just in audio but in lots of comparisons. It's just another means of drawing a conclusion. It's far from the end all of test's; just another tool in the box, right?

Your making a point that "how come musicians can enter a crowded room full of equipment and within a few minutes be in total agreement about which units have the best sound" I don’t agree, and in comparison to audio equipment I think a crowd of musicians picks out a group of the best equipments in the room. But, still yet they individually favor one piece or the other.

I don’t see how anyone could say there is one best amp. One best speaker. Everything has a different sound or tone, not to mention every person hears differently. There’s lots and lots of great equipment out there.

It's my speculation that the musicians are quickly satisfied because they are 'producing' music and the tone they want is exactly what they are producing at that time in the moment. It is what it is, and that's exactly what they want.

Audiophiles and reviewers are looking for what they think or perceive as a perfect reproduction of what the musician played. It's not possible. They cant do it. They were not there when it was produced.
There’s just no perfect reference to compare.

Would it be close if you set up different systems in a recording studio. Right in the same room people played and compared the reproduction to the production? Only if your 100% sure there is no degradation from the production to the reproduction considering: mics, cables, recording equipment.

Why don’t you hear of musicians spending $5000.00 a meter for a mic cable or a guitar cord?


Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3672 is a reply to message #3667] Thu, 31 August 2006 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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You got to admitt there must be a reason the musical guys pay the big bucks for certain amps/guitars/drums/mics especially. Those are the desireable ones and the reason for that is they sound good. Now I understand that of course there are differences within each instrument as to taste and certain sounds a guy looks for. But in my humble 30 yrs of playing I have always seen it to be that the good sounding equipment gets noticed right away while the poorer sounding stuff doesn't.
How many times have you attended a studio session and heard a player exclaim to another how good a certain amp sounds; even if that amp isn't one he chooses to use they always seem to agree. Or a group clusters around a certain instrument after they hear it; I know that has happened to everyone who plays.
If this wasn't something that guys who play did not encounter all the time i wouldn't even bring it up. It would be nice to hear some empirical anecdotes from other muscicians than we two; that would I think make a case for my argument. I know I paid a lot for my sons vintage Buffet clarinet and it wasn't because it had nice chrome trim.
Or try bringing a nice Martin 1944 D 28 to a local store and playing it against the usual suspects. See if there is no agreement as to the quality of the sound. I think you might find some unanimity in opinion on that model. Why? Because everyone can recognise good sound without all the rigamarole discussed up top here.


Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3674 is a reply to message #3672] Thu, 31 August 2006 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
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Because we do, that's why!!!!

All kidding aside, I've noticed that the "tone" is more player dependant than the equipment a lot of times. I mean if I play a Les Paul with active pickups like Zakk Wylde does I can get a sound that approxiated his through my Peavey amp, even though he plays through a JCM800 Marshall. But I can't if I'm using regular pickups. So the equipment has something to do with it. But on the other hand I've seen really good players pick a POS guitar and run through their equipment and they still sound just like they always do. So a lot of it has to do with personal technique I think.

Why do a lot of people like the sound of a LesP through a Marshall? Because a large majority of music has been recorded/played live through this equipment so that's what we equate with good sound. Now I think a strat through a Marshall sounds weak, but completely awesome through a Fender Twin. Whereas a LesP through a Twin doesn't ring right. Why, because most of the blues players I've ever equated with being good play the strat/twin combo. Not all, but most (exceptions like Albert King, Lonnie Mack, etc..)

And the get all---most active guitar players I know try to listen to as much live music as they can cuz that's where the action is!

Was that meaningless enough for ya'll.

Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3676 is a reply to message #3674] Thu, 31 August 2006 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Good points. Is it a chicken and egg thing? Did the greats play through these amp/guitar combinations because they were used to that sound; or did they choose the best sound? And of course we return full circle to that point where we say why does one Violin sell for a million bucks and another of the same make sell for 20k$?

Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3682 is a reply to message #3676] Thu, 31 August 2006 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shane is currently offline  Shane
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S&D. Because someone's STUPID enough to pay millions for an instrument!

Re: Still Can't Get A response On why Guitar Players know what sounds good. [message #3685 is a reply to message #3682] Thu, 31 August 2006 20:34 Go to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Now you are being cynical my friend. There are instruments of such compelling tone that it becomes an honest value regardless of price. Of course they don't measure well.

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