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Where art thou Woodworker [message #35668] Sun, 24 March 2002 01:46 Go to next message
dbeardsl is currently offline  dbeardsl
Messages: 127
Registered: May 2009
Master
Question for all ye woodworkers, well anybody who builds there own cabinets. What are some different methods you have used for joints?

I'm thinking either a double dado or single dado.


double dado
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single dado
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Got an interesting idea though. Use dowels at a 45 degree angle, coming all the way out both surfaces of the cabinet, out just far enough not to actually go into the cabinet. Then cut em off and sand flat.. Would definately help the joint, might be hard to drill at a 45, might look neato though.


Re: some idea's [message #35669 is a reply to message #35668] Sun, 24 March 2002 08:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bmar is currently offline  bmar
Messages: 346
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Hi,

There are about as many different joint as there are different speaker drivers! some fundamentally better than other and some are just preference! If you were to invert your your double rabbit joint, it would be a little stronger. Since the speaker box will not be seen from the inside and has no conflicting internal parts. I prefer to use and inside glue block that is screwed into the corners (not nailed).

Your idea for corner dowels is similar to "through dovetails" and would look great! you would need a jig with a drill bushing that you could clamp onto the corner of the box, and a very sharp brad point drill. maybe someone with more veneer experiance would have an idea. I would probably make one fixture that was the length of the corner. this would have all the dowel hole in it, and able to take different drill bushings. this way you could drill one series of holes undersize. replace all the drill bushings, and drill your final sized hole. this would give you a clean hole on the final pass. a lot of work huh? cool design! have fun.

Bill

Re: some idea's - best woods for cleats and on-edge braces? [message #35670 is a reply to message #35669] Sun, 24 March 2002 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
freddyi is currently offline  freddyi
Messages: 48
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hi Bill

I've always used poplar for cleating - a buddy of mine put together a box for me using the worst 3/4" square pine I've seen - almost all split :~( need to do a cleat replacement.. couldn't get him to pick up my poplar boards to rip - anyhow, what woods do you prefer for cleating and on-edge braces? (other than plywood/MDF)

also - would you make cleats 3/4" square or a bit larger? ( got some big boxes ahead)

Freddy

Re: some idea's - best woods for cleats and on-edge braces? [message #35672 is a reply to message #35670] Sun, 24 March 2002 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bmar is currently offline  bmar
Messages: 346
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Hi Freddy,

I have always made the cleat from the same material the carcus is made from. This will keep the wood all of the same stability. In the case of veneered plywood. I have used both maple and oak since they are strong and the screw will have less tendancy to work its way into the cleat and becoming lose. I like to make the cleats 1" or 3/4 x 1 anyway.

I have not tried it yet, but I hear some people like the Gorilla Glue. suposed to be good for end grains in corner joints and the like. I think a real problem is you need about 5 years of expanding and contracting with the season changes to be able to see how a joint is going to hold up.
To offer a suggestion of yet even more work! put two coats of finish on the inside of the box too.

Bill

Some more ideas [message #35674 is a reply to message #35669] Sun, 24 March 2002 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BillEpstein is currently offline  BillEpstein
Messages: 886
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Bill's right on the money, again, about reversing what you call a dado which is actually just a rabbeted joint. Reversing your single version is called a "housing joint" and is very strong. The british are in love with them! Also easy to cut as only one set-up is required on the tablesaw for both cuts.
The dowels would look nice and resist racking of the carcase but do little to strengthen it.
Visit some router accessory sites and look at bits that are designed to create an expanded gluing surface for joining panels. They usually cut a 45 degre miter at the same time they put a rabbet or 2 in the joint. Very strong and accurate.
Look for links on finewoodworking. com.
Oh yes, you could also miter the edges of the panels, which would hide the plywood edges and then cut kerfs along the entire length to insert splines. Accurately cut kerfs would locate the panels for glue-up and make the joint very strong as the splines are all long grain.
1/8" kerf - 1/8" spline.
A variation on that would be using biscuits instead of splines. Good excuse to acquire another tool.
Go to Borders, order a coffee and spend an hour in the woodworking books section.
Two hobbies for the price of three!


Re: some idea's [message #35678 is a reply to message #35669] Mon, 25 March 2002 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dbeardsl is currently offline  dbeardsl
Messages: 127
Registered: May 2009
Master
Think it would be alright to use that inverted dado, or rabit joint, but in the upper piece only do 1 cut, leaves a little more meat on the board and 1 less cut to do.

Like This:
__________________________
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|xxxxxe|ooo|
|_____|ooo|________________
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|ooooooooo|
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|ooooooooo|


Also, with those screws from the inside, would you reccomend screwing them while the glue was drying or afterward?

Re: some idea's [message #35679 is a reply to message #35678] Mon, 25 March 2002 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bmar is currently offline  bmar
Messages: 346
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
your design should work just fine.

glue up the all 4 pieces

clamp from top to bottom, 2 or 3 clamps per side.

make sure the box is sqaure. measure corner to corner and tweak the angle of the clamps until you get the same measurment.

glue and scew your corner blocks in now, dont wait!

chech for sqare again.

tips:
pre drill and countersink all holes in the blocks. the screw should slide right through the block. remove any chips/burrs from backside.

put all screws into the side first ( the piece with the "o")
then screw into the top or bottom, the screws will work with the clamps.

you'll need a slower setting glue like a liquid hide or a plastic resin. yellow glue will set too fast for you.

make sure your corner blocks are shorter than the sides. you still need the front and back to drop in.

other thoughts:
you could use this joint on the front and back too. in which case i would assemble the top and two sides with the corner blocks.
slide the front and back pannels in with glue.
then put the bottom on. now you can reach into the woofer hole to to get at the bottom glue blocks. now you have a great reason to get more clamps!


Re: Where art thou Woodworker [message #35690 is a reply to message #35668] Wed, 27 March 2002 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erik from Holland is currently offline  Erik from Holland
Messages: 36
Registered: May 2009
Baron
I just finished a set with what you call a double-dado joint. But with an extra!!

Soon i will post a few pics of my projects on this site, so keep looking for messages from "Erik from Holland"

ByeBye!

drop testing enclosures [message #35698 is a reply to message #35668] Wed, 27 March 2002 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam P. is currently offline  Sam P.
Messages: 307
Registered: May 2009
Grand Master
Can we get Adam to build a few cubes, perhaps 1 cu.ft. each, where the panels are either plain butt joints or dadoed. Glue only and screwed/glued too. Then fling them up high, and see if the extra "strength" helps when they come to a sudden stop at ground level. Sam
heh [message #35703 is a reply to message #35698] Wed, 27 March 2002 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
dbeardsl is currently offline  dbeardsl
Messages: 127
Registered: May 2009
Master
My guess is they would both do well with 1 cuft and no heavy driver on one panel. Get to a certain point and the glued one would break apart while the screwed one would stay together but become increasingly deformed.

oooh tilted parallelogram cabinets :-)

I've done some testing myself, and steel framed VCR's that frustrate you for days then won't play anymore fair very well on drop tests. You can't throw it high enough, requiring the use of simulated dropping technology(sledgehammer).

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