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tweeter horns in the line array? [message #22699]

Wed, 29 June 2005 09:29

Eric J
Messages: 71
Registered: May 2009

Viscount

Are there pros and cons in using tweeters horns in the line array? how about in using more than three or four constant directivity horns per channel?

eric j.

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Re: tweeter horns in the line array? [message #22700 is a reply to message #22699]

Wed, 29 June 2005 10:24

Bill Wassilak
Messages: 402
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Yes, using 1 it's not so bad but then you're back at having a 6db drop in doubleing of distance for the tweeters. Using more it's usually the c-t-c spacing of the drivers in the array that will determine at what frequency comb filtering starts setting in. On using more constant dir. horns usually the mouning flanges are going to add about 1/2" to an in. more to the c-t-c spacing in which comb filtering will start setting in at a lower freq.

In pro sound most line array horns I've seen have a dispersion pattern of 90x5 or 90x10 deg with 2-4 1" drivers mounted on 1 horn.

HTH

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Re: tweeter horns in the line array? [message #22701 is a reply to message #22700]

Wed, 29 June 2005 10:41

Eric J
Messages: 71
Registered: May 2009

Viscount

OK...but I'm NOT talking about pro-sound reinforcement.

I'm talking about the room listening environment that is about 7 meters from the speakers for normal sitting down listening.

I'm also talking about electronic crossovers, and separate amp for the tweeter array (and mid/woof, and sub woofer). I'm talking about cutting the flanges so that the distance is less that 1/8 of an inch between tweeter speakers, and well as between the flanges of the midrange drivers. I'm looking to cross them at 3000 to 3500 hz.

Another piece that I read (http://www.lenardaudio.com/education/07_horns.html) suggested that round horns were the most musical, and talked against constant directivity or rectangular horns.

eric j

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Re: tweeter horns in the line array? [message #22702 is a reply to message #22701]

Wed, 29 June 2005 11:02

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18678
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Constant directivity just means the sound is uniform no matter where you are. To not like constant directivity is to like unbalanced sound.

In fairness, most people that like horns with collapsing DI usually like other features about them. It isn't the lack of CD they like, it's the acoustic EQ they get. Or some may like them just to fit in with a particular orthodoxy.

But the fact still remains. Constant directivity is a requirement of balanced sound. If the sound source doesn't have constant directivity, then off-axis sound is unbalanced. That also means the tonal balance of sound reflected back from the room is unbalanced. You can treat the room, but you're still just masking the problem.

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Re: tweeter horns in the line array? [message #22703 is a reply to message #22702]

Wed, 29 June 2005 12:18

Eric J
Messages: 71
Registered: May 2009

Viscount

So how many of the CD horns would I PUT into a 60 inch array that also has 18 full range mid woof drivers on the side?

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the wave front [message #22704 is a reply to message #22699]

Wed, 29 June 2005 12:59

lcholke
Messages: 73
Registered: May 2009

Viscount

Hi,

I think the wave front would not be flat. That is what the 1/4 to 1/2 wave length spacing helps accomplish. With the horn the 1/4- 1/2 spacing is not possible due to the mouth dimensions. I saw a picture of a pro sound solution where the horn was a manifold to maintain zero phase shift at the exit of the horn.

-Linc

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Re: the wave front [message #22705 is a reply to message #22704]

Wed, 29 June 2005 13:15

Eric J
Messages: 71
Registered: May 2009

Viscount

I hate to sound like an idiot, but could you explain what you just wrote in "layperson english" and tell me why what you wrote is a problem for you?

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Re: tweeter horns in the line array? [message #22706 is a reply to message #22703]

Wed, 29 June 2005 13:23

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18678
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

It depends on the characteristics of the drivers, horn flares, mounting geometry, intended pattern and use, etc. I just wanted to point out what constant directivity was because I thought it might be beneficial to you.

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Re: tweeter horns in the line array? [message #22707 is a reply to message #22706]

Wed, 29 June 2005 13:28

Eric J
Messages: 71
Registered: May 2009

Viscount

Thanks. I did know what CD horns are. I just don't always understand the jargon of audio. You have to understand that I did know most of the jargon 25 years ago, but then children and college expenses and all kind of things intervened, and I was out of the picture for a long time. My own field is clinical school psychology, not audio or electronics.

I am pretty sure what the other poster mean about unequal wave fronts (time delay among speakers?) and I'm pretty sure with a combination of time delay adjustment in the electronic crossovers, and placement in the speaker system, that is a fixed deal. But I'm not sure if that's what he is talking about.

eric j.

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Hypothetical Question About Horns In Line Arrays [message #22708 is a reply to message #22699]

Wed, 29 June 2005 15:17

FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

If I built a tweeter array using an inexpesive horn/driver combination like the Selenium HM17-25 horn and the DH2000E 1" compression driver I could space the horns no closer than 5.16" center-to-center, because that's the dimension of the horn mouth. Wouldn't I have the equivalent of an array of 1" tweeters placed on a 5.16" ctc spacing, with the attendant comb effect issues? Is there something I don't understand about horns that would mitigate this problem?