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Re: Beliefs [message #1608 is a reply to message #1607] Wed, 04 May 2005 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yeah; I gotta get up there. Hows your typical schedule?

Re: Beliefs [message #1609 is a reply to message #1586] Wed, 04 May 2005 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dean Kukral is currently offline  Dean Kukral
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Registered: May 2009
Master
There is, as a rule, no such thing as the "best" piece of equipment.

First of all, technologies change. What might have been "best" before is not necessarily "best" after a technological breakthrough. For example, when compact discs came along, nobody in their right minds listened to records any more if the same music were available in the new format. Yet, for many years, records were the "best" way of delivering music to consumers. (Tape would certainly have been better, but the engineering design trade-offs have to include things such as cost, size, etc.)

Second, virtually every design in engineering represents a series of trade-offs, compromises in the real world. The quality of items is not linearly ordered. One item may be better at one thing and worse at another. For example, one amplifier may be capable of lower distortion within its operating limits, and another my have higher distortion with wider operating limits. Neither one is "best." One is better at one thing, and another is better at another thing. The form follows the function.



Re: Beliefs [message #1610 is a reply to message #1608] Wed, 04 May 2005 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
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Master
This month is two dance recitals which means two dance classes a week. Add that to three kids taking paino lessons. Then there is school homework and activities. In early June a 5th grade moving up day for my middle child. As I get into June and the summer things start ending and time is available.

Martin

Re: Beliefs [message #1623 is a reply to message #1610] Thu, 05 May 2005 06:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
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Illuminati (13th Degree)
I hear that; it just doesn't quit. Summers nice up there I'd like to see what you have.

Re: Beliefs [message #1626 is a reply to message #1586] Thu, 05 May 2005 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Earl Geddes is currently offline  Earl Geddes
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Master
There were a lot of responses to this post and many objected to the term "best".

As an engineer I prefer to use the word "optimum", becasue there always is a optimum solutions to a problem and a given set of contraints. The "optimum" may not be the "best".

As an audio engineer the thing I have always liked about the "older" stuff is its simplicity. But, also as an engineer, we have come a long way in our understanding of audio and the materials and tools that we use in our designs. As engineers we would be doing a pretty poor job if somehow we hadn't improved on the old. I consider myself a good engineer so I think that I can improve on the old. But I always try and do it as simply as possible. Don't usematerials that don't matter. Don't add components that don't make a difference. Don't pay more for something if it isn't any better. In short - optimize the design.

In my expereince, the audio "optimum" is converging on some final principles. I won't belabor them all here, but a few are readily apparent. In electronics its minimize feedback. Among amplifier designers that I know (some of the best) this is pretty well standard thinking - tubes have always had this. In loudspeakers, it appears to be good polar control. The Harman guys and I certainly agree on this point. Room acoustics - well thats still in turmoil I'm affraid to say.

At any rate, I am partially agreing with you that as the constraints become less and our knowledge increases, the "optimum" solutions should (and will) converge on a finite set of answers. In principle this set can be as large as the number of degrees of freedom in the contraint set, but in reality, I think that it will be a whole lot less.


Re: Colin was kidding, John [message #1628 is a reply to message #1599] Thu, 05 May 2005 07:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Sounds like you are having fun, John!
I am gojng to get one of those sonic impact amps as well. I heard the one by Bob BRines, and it sounds good.
For $30, how can you go wrong? I'll probably run my klipschorns off it.
-akhilesh

Re: Beliefs [message #1629 is a reply to message #1602] Thu, 05 May 2005 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
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Illuminati (3rd Degree)
I think measurements can take us to a system that is 90% there. Beyond that, it becomes personal tastes. Some people like a non-flat freq curve, some people like more even order distortion.

I think the paramters that govern whether we like or dislike a system are few: mainly frequency curve & distotion, but once the curve is reasonably flat, and the distortion reasonably low (say below 4%) then it becomes subjective.

Just my two cents.
-akhilesh

Re: Beliefs [message #1630 is a reply to message #1626] Thu, 05 May 2005 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I agree. The recording process is the next frontier. But please allow for the instinct of the design artist who manipulates the intangibles. What I notice is; So many of the most recent efforts seem to result in the drive to isolate aspects of the sound to the point that music is defined and compartmentalised into a progressively more narrow presentation.
I think that is the result of 2x tests that by design require the participants to seperate out the more obvious artifacts.
Now they record all this pop jazz to sound good on the hyper-revealing speakers; but those same speakers become irritating when called upon to resolve very complicated recordings as the music developes this etched quality that real music doesn't have.It seems they lose that organic tunefullness that you hear in real life.
That is why I listen to music and that seems to be what is removed when these issues are addressed in this manner.
I don't know; maybe it's the regressive fallacy raising it's ugly head but I know what sounds like music.
Thanks for your attention to this thread.

Re: Colin was kidding, John [message #1635 is a reply to message #1628] Thu, 05 May 2005 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Absolutely; I would encourage you to try that. I am having fun; why else do this? Nothing sillier than someone who takes this stuff too seriously.

Re: Beliefs [message #1645 is a reply to message #1623] Thu, 05 May 2005 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Martin is currently offline  Martin
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009
Master
Where are you located?

I have had people visit before during the summer and one guy drove from as far as southern NJ for an afternoon/evening listening session. One guy hauled a set of speakers up and we had a great time swapping the three sets of speakers in and out of my system. Then there is my buddy up the street and we go back and forth a few times a year.

If you want ot make the trip, I should have a new amp and preamp by the early summer. Any time after I replace my failing Adcom preamp would be a good time. Once fall starts, the school activities, dance lessons, and piano lessons grind starts again.

E-mail me off line in June and we can see if a date and time can be worked out,

Martin


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