Home » Audio » Speaker » "Modern" or "Vintage"?
"Modern" or "Vintage"? [message #15152] Sun, 08 January 2006 05:48 Go to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
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I posted a message recently about my completion of the Zaph Audio Seas two-way, which is a contemporary design that's comparable to many two-way speakers in the mainstream market (low sensitivity drivers, about 85dB final sensitivity with baffle step correction, small enclosure, high WAF). It looks very much like (and uses some of the same drivers) as speakers by Tyler Acoustics and Joseph Audio. It turned out to be a very nice sounding speaker which I would recommend for anyone who will be using it in a small listening room like mine.

As soon as I completed the Zaph Audio speaker I removed 3 Pi "vintage" speakers to the garage to finally paint and veneer the enclosures. The 3 Pi isn't a vintage speaker, but it's designed along those lines with a large high sensitivity woofer, horn tweeter, and large (20"W, 30"H) enclosure. Its only "non vintage" characteristic is a modern crossover design using compensation networks to smooth out the effects of driver impedance and frequence response variations.

Now the 3 Pi's are finished and back in the listening room, which gave me an opportunity to do some comparative listening. Using a three watt SET amp the 3 Pi's are clearly the better choice because this flea power amp can't drive the low sensitivity SEAS speaker. I also did a comparison using a 40 watt EL-34 push pull tube amp and a 125 watt solid state. A clear winner also emerges with these larger amps. It is...


OOPS! [message #15153 is a reply to message #15152] Sun, 08 January 2006 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
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Did I forget to mention which speaker is the clear winner? Come to the Lone Star Bottlhead meeting at my house Saturday and decide for yourself. Can't quite make the trip from Poughkeepsie or Seattle? No problem. I'll post a message summarizing the consensus of those present, which will include both Bottleheads and Houston Audio Society members.

Re: OOPS! [message #15154 is a reply to message #15153] Sun, 08 January 2006 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Say Fred; the SEAS; do those use the old crossover from the Joseph Audio line, that "infinite slope" design do you happen to know?
The crossover they designed for the JSE series then modifyed for the RM series?
I ask becuase those speakers were the imaging champs of the audio world. I nerver heard anything do imaging like that design; it was uncanny.

Infinite Slope Crossover [message #15155 is a reply to message #15154] Sun, 08 January 2006 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
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No, I assume the Joseph Audio "infinite slope" crossover is patented. I understand it's a 120dB/octave slope. The crossover in teh Zaph audio Seas speakers is the more common variety. It can be seen at the link below; just scroll down a bit.

30dB+/Octave Crossover Patent [message #15156 is a reply to message #15154] Sun, 08 January 2006 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
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I wonder if this could be the patent for the "infinite slope" crossover used by Joseph Audio?

Re: Infinite Slope Crossover [message #15157 is a reply to message #15155] Sun, 08 January 2006 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Yes; that sounds like it; he claimed over 100db/oct slope at the time. The Zaph speakers look nice. I put in my vote for the Pi Three's though. I will watch for the answer after the meeting. Thanks.

And The Winner Is... [message #15169 is a reply to message #15152] Sat, 14 January 2006 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FredT is currently offline  FredT
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The 3 Pi Theater speakers by a vote of seven to five. Those who preferred the Pi speakers cited the warmer and deeper bass combined with a larger soundstage. Those who preferred the Seas speakers liked the clarity of the Seas woofer. Some felt the treble was too recessed, which surprised me because I find it almost too bright for my ears.

I didn't vote, but if I had it would have been for the Pi speakers. Even at the moderate volume levels I find the Pi speakers are warm and non fatiguing over a long listening period. The bass is more extended and more powerful, but it is tightly controlled and not at all like the "wooly" bass I have heard with some real vintage speakers. The Seas have greater midrange resolution but they don't provide as much listening enjoyment. At higher volume levels the Pi's are the only choice.

Re: And The Winner Is... [message #15172 is a reply to message #15169] Sun, 15 January 2006 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Thanks, I'm pleased and humbled by your post.

I've been talking to Natalie about the upcoming GPAF, and I'm looking forward to seeing you and the rest of the Texas folks there. Pass the word, and lets make this year's gathering even better than last year's. I love the laid-back unpretentious attitude there, especially considering the quality of systems. Your room sounded great, and I can hardly wait to see what you've got cooking for this year!


Re: And The Winner Is... [message #15173 is a reply to message #15172] Mon, 16 January 2006 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Nice; I kinda feel the same way myself about the PI's. Hard to beat. Many speakers do something better but no speaker does most thing's better.


Re: And The Winner Is... [message #15174 is a reply to message #15173] Mon, 16 January 2006 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Thanks, John, nice of you to say.

Hey, what's the chance of coming to Tulsa for GPAF in May? I think plane or bus fare would be inexpensive, and rooms don't cost much at all here in Tulsa. I'll even have a couple extra rooms so that's an option if you need.


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