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Check this out [message #10975 is a reply to message #10973] Mon, 14 February 2005 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Hey Terry, check out the little Stoetkit. It's really great, especially for the price! I listened to the a demo unit last summer and loved it. Bought one and did a write-up of the process of building it. So I thought you might want to give it a listen.

I want to check out Heart's Kit 2 and Heartbeat amps sometime soon. I hear 6moons or someone is reviewing one of them soon. I kinda like forming my own opinions though.


Re: Good question [message #10976 is a reply to message #10971] Mon, 14 February 2005 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Yep; no way around that. Whats the eff. of your speaks?

Re: Still a bit of a generalization, but... [message #10977 is a reply to message #10974] Mon, 14 February 2005 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I agree.

Re: sometimes.... [message #10978 is a reply to message #10969] Mon, 14 February 2005 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
Well; looks like you have it so far.
My question is; what is the one amp regardless of how or when or what equipment it was used with; but which amp stopped you in your tracks?
Example, big 211 triode SE did do that to me once.
It had a lush, room filling quality that caught me.
The Fisher amp with the EL-34's and the twin rec. tubes also had a different sound to me. Thats PP.

that's a good one... [message #10979 is a reply to message #10978] Mon, 14 February 2005 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
I got pretty good with my first pair of monoblocks. PP KT90's and big L-C PS. Dynaco A441 outputs rigged for CFB. Ran through a bunch of front ends and really liked them. ~35 W.

Swapped OPT to A431 and put an E-Linear pair of 12BY7A out front and found it an improvement.

The current DH Tetrode amps( beam tetrode/Pentode more accurately ) really do it. They have the Peerless 20-20 copies with a few mods for E-Linear operation and cascode Diff amps in front.

I knew I was on to somethig when the chassis ran PP 1619 and didn't glow so well as the Thoriated Tungsten finals I am using now. I can't imagine doing w/o it.

I am going to do a tweak on the front end soon, I have learned a few more things and wish to try them...
regards,
Douglas



Reference music? [message #10980 is a reply to message #10979] Mon, 14 February 2005 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinhester is currently offline  colinhester
Messages: 1349
Registered: May 2009
Location: NE Arkansas
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
What recordings (label, reference number) do you use to judge your system and modifications? Also, can you please describe your system (source, speakers)....Thanks, Colin

Re: Reference music? [message #10981 is a reply to message #10980] Mon, 14 February 2005 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PakProtector is currently offline  PakProtector
Messages: 935
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Hey-Hey!!!,
The source is a Pioneer DV-563A. It's stock and sounds OK. The speakers are 3-ways. JBL 4560 loaded with EVM-15L EV's. Mids are 18" long 30-degree included angle horns. 2" throat and loaded with FE-107's. The top is an old pair of Radio Shack compression driver horns.

I like to play what I like to listen to. Live Grateful Dead, Pink Floyd, Bela Fleck, and some Allison Kraus get the most time. Led Zeplin, CCR, Iron Maiden, AC/DC and The Who...

If I like listening to it while doing the dishes or folding laundry, it is aceptable test material. Some do stand out, Bela Fleck's album Uncommon Ritual is a nice string piece. From Cosmic Hippo, 'The Flight of the Cosmic Hippo' is always a fav, as is the live cut from Live Art. Little Worlds has a sweet version of 'The Ballad of Jed Clampett'. The SACD of Dark Side has a few favs too. 'Money' and the piece before 'Time'...

the H-E speakers mean I can't stand much noise, either hum or dirt from no place in particular. It is aceptable on a poor man's budget. Heaven helpme if I had to buy it retail...
regards,
Douglas


Re: Still a bit of a generalization, but... [message #10982 is a reply to message #10967] Mon, 14 February 2005 23:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Chleapas is currently offline  John Chleapas
Messages: 35
Registered: May 2009
Baron
>I tend to agree. I've heard some really nice SET amps, but one thing I've started to realize is that they aren't cheap. The entry level SET kits I've heard had very little power and flabby bass or no bass at all. But if budget allows bigger tubes and iron, then I think SET becomes an attractive option.>

Wow. My two SET amps both make thumping bass. I have a 300b Welborne DRD and a 45 DRD Welborne. Both are mono blocks. The 300b is SS rectified and the 45 is tube rectified. I use JBL 4648A-8 twin 15" bass bins that are 100dB efficient. Just a casual observation that many who listen to SET for the first time may not have speakers efficient enough. This does not apply to you Wayne as your Pi speakers are eficient enough for SET. These Welborne amps will play on for a good 10 seconds after I switch them off so maybe their power supplies are also stouter? I have a small stereo 11 wpc 6V6 amp and that has much less bass to my ears than the 300b and 45 SET amps. This amp is used at my apartment on less efficient 93dB@1W JBL L300 speakers. These speakers can exhibit mucho bass with my highly modified 19wpc strapped in triode Dynaco ST-70.

>I think you can make a much nicer sounding push-pull amp for a few hundred dollars than a SET amp, so I think entry level systems might be better off running push-pull. The trouble for DIY is that SET is simple to build but requires more expensive components for good sound quality. A good quality push-pull amp can be made with cheaper components, but it's more difficult to build, and maybe that discourages DIY builders.>

I think you get what you pay for. Cheap iron is not a great start for any DIY project. See the Derek Walton site for plans for the inexpensive version of the JE Labs 300b. The inexpensive angela universal power transformer is actually pretty good. Again with better iron I think anyone will be happier with the results no matter if they are building SET or PP. As for parts count it is a fact that SET usually has a lower parts count. I would love to build the Gordon Rankin designed Baby O' some day. But the silver wound output transformers are about $800 each. Still these amps really look very well designed, and they have low parts count. Low parts count means easier building for dummies like me with a soldering iron.

>I guess I've come to the conclusion that if you have the budget, give SET a go. There are some great SET amps in the $2K range. Less than that, I'm thinking go push-pull.>

There are also some great PP amps in the 1K range like the used Klimo Kent 35 wpc EL34 mono blocks. I paid the princely sum of $995 for my pair on Agon last Fall. Ron Welborne sells some nice SET kits starting at under $1500. He sells built units that use the very good quality ElectraPrint output transformers for a little more loot. Both the kits and the built amps use Electraprint iron. I own 45 SET, 300b SET, EL34 PP, KT88 PP mono block amplifiers. I own a few stereo amps in my HK Citation 11, and two Dynaco ST-70 amps. I listen to both SET and push pull. Both modalities do things that I like. As long as it has tubes and is not made brand new in China I will listen to it. No, some higher end Chinese new gear is rated nicely. I cringe at the folks buying the lowest end Chinese tube gear that just might not stand the test of time. All audio is very subjective at its best. None more so than tube amplifiers and horn speakers. I am a believer in buying vintage tube gear and enjoying it. For example I bought a 20 year old Conrad Johnson Premier 4 that uses 8 Mullard EL34 tubes and makes 100 wpc. Three years later I sold it on Agon to a doctor in MD who loves it for what I paid for it. Same with my HK amp and other higher quality names that tend to hold value. Some like my Fisher FM-1000 tube tuner, and other collectible tube ones can even go up in value. The smart reason for buying better quality used tube amps is you can usually recover your investment if you do not like them. LOL, that is only true if you do not spend to much when you buy it, if it is worth less than you paid for it. Make any sense? Hey, as long as it glows listen to it! Have fun as this is a very short journey we are on in life. I really like the 2-way horns I got for my Dad. The horns are 31" x 31" JBL 2360A. The drivers in them are TAD td-4001. The bass bins are JBL twin 15" woofer 4648A-8. The horns are powered with the 45 mono blocks. The bass bins are still having a/b testing with the 300b SET and the Klimo EL34 push pull. The crossover is a marchand xm-126. It is a lot of fun to listen to vinyl and CD's on his stereo. His speakers at 6' tall are very SET friendely speakers with the 100dB efficiency. I powered both speakers with only 1.8 wpc and it made great sounding music. John C.




Re: Still a bit of a generalization, but... [message #10983 is a reply to message #10982] Mon, 14 February 2005 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I'm talking about entry level stuff here, under a thousand bucks. You've mentioned some very fine products, and I wouldn't consider any of it to be entry level.

I've heard some really great SET amps in the ~$2K price range, some even hovering closer to $1000 or $1500. But once you get good tubes in the those thousand dollar amps, you're getting closer to the two grand mark. Gently used gear is another option to get the price down.

But what I'm talking about here are entry level tube amps and kits that sell for a few hundred bucks. The low-buck SET's are fun, but not really my cup of tea.


Re: that's a good one... [message #10984 is a reply to message #10979] Tue, 15 February 2005 06:23 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (13th Degree)
I have an old copy of Valve Magazine from the early 90's that has a pre-amp design in it from Eric Barbour where he insists that Thoriated Triodes even though they are very microphonic make the best pre-amp tubes. He uses a Svetlana 572 with the filaments driven by computor switching power supplies. Lot of info in that article.
Allison Kraus; what a voice on that girl.

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