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Re: Interesting quote [message #18426 is a reply to message #18425] Sat, 14 January 2006 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Not sure I follow that. I know about vibration and sound I was wondering how reversing that would change things in any way. I mean there must be a way you can tell if the phase is opposite what the signal intended. But what would show that to be true and how would you know.

Re: Interesting quote [message #18427 is a reply to message #18426] Sat, 14 January 2006 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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You could measure the signal and tell whether phase was 180° out with respect to the original. But it wouldn't matter 'cause you can't hear the difference.


Re: Interesting quote [message #18428 is a reply to message #18427] Sat, 14 January 2006 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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Thats exactly the confusing part. That makes it sound to me as if phase integrity has no effect on sound.
But the question I had was really this simple and it is what I don't get. If the driver is moving in when it should be moving out then what happens when it is not the same as the original? Nothing?
Thats what I don't understand. Something has to be noticeable when that happens; whether you can hear it or not isn't the problem I am having. It is how do you recognise it when it happens? It must be of concern to proffessionals in the field.
No big deal; just curious.


Re: Interesting quote [message #18429 is a reply to message #18428] Sat, 14 January 2006 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Illuminati (33rd Degree)

You should try it out for yourself. Listen to your speakers and then reverse the leads on both. Don't do it on one, 'cause then you'll cause cancellation. That will make response anomalies, which you can hear. So reverse leads on both speakers and see how it sounds to have 180° shift in absolute phase.


Re: Interesting quote [message #18432 is a reply to message #18429] Sun, 15 January 2006 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manualblock is currently offline  Manualblock
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I do that occasionally when ever something doesn't seem right. Maybe it's my imagination, but I don't actively think about it, I just sort of realise there is something off at some point in my listening so I try swapping. Doesn't happen often and it doesn't always work out but sometimes it does. Enough to make me get my lazy butt off the couch and do it.

Re: Interesting quote [message #18447 is a reply to message #18426] Wed, 18 January 2006 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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"Not sure I follow that. I know about vibration and sound I was wondering how reversing that would change things in any way."

IF a single note from a trumpet (say) is played, it will cause first, say, a compression, then a rarefaction, and so on. IF a speaker were reproducing that sound, in phase, it would first move forward, and then back. Out of phase, it would first move back, then forward.

Given the phase anomalies that exist in most real world environments, and the fact theat most PM is highly complex, abs phase has not been shown to be audible at all. Richard Greiner did do some studies that showed that i9n some very simple tiones, with a very clean environment, it si audible. However, that does not extend to real world listening of real world PM.
-akhilesh

Re: Interesting quote [message #18448 is a reply to message #18447] Wed, 18 January 2006 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18691
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Absolute phase cannot be heard when a single frequency tone is generated. In a very real sense, "phase" has no meaning unless two tones are referenced, because phase is a description of the difference in time between two cyclic events.

When two tones are generated, their phase relationship with one another matters because of their interaction with one another. If they are out of phase, they will cancel each other out and the sound will drop off. If phase moves in and out of destructive and constructive interference, then there can be rhythmic throbbing of cancellation and reinforcement. But if the movement in phase is such that no destructive interference results, then phase is imperceptible. The bottom line is that if you can hear something as a result of phase changes, then what is heard is cancellations that cause frequency anomalies - not the phase.


Re: Interesting quote [message #18456 is a reply to message #18448] Wed, 18 January 2006 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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Makes sense, buddy.
Here ia a link on absolute phase that pretty much agrees with what we have been saying.
http://sound.westhost.com/ptd.htm

-akhilesh


Re: Interesting quote [message #18457 is a reply to message #18456] Wed, 18 January 2006 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
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Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Hey, whatcha bringing to GPAF? I'm starting to really get excited about it.


Re: Interesting quote [message #18459 is a reply to message #18457] Thu, 19 January 2006 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
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Registered: May 2009
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HI Wayne,
Depending on my Wife's mood, I'll either float around with some amps, or actually get a room, and set up my trusonic 3 way setup.
Not sure yet. My guess is i'll just get an amp or two, and float around with it. Let's see.
BTW, I just purchased an amp from Jef Larson, whoch is really cool. It uses the same output trannys he had at the last GPAF, but uses a 12b4 tube singleended, driven by a 12ax7. THe sound is super clear.
It's only 1 watt, but my Khorns seem to like it.
-akhilesh


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