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Re: Ukraine [message #97556 is a reply to message #97482] Fri, 22 March 2024 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Sir, I guess you know now. This means War! What? weren't we at war? This paradox of the west to the goings on in Ukraine is typical to the delusion that helped create the special operations in the first place. Since the Ukraine's can't any longer carry out a legitimate military assault along the fortifications Russia has built in the territory now annexed. Ukraine does what it can with what little it has, trying to inflict pain inside Russia. It will not be tolerated.
The west grouses over Putin's reelection, saying its a hoax and rubber stamped. News outlets did their duty to produce propagandized articles as to so. Non corporatized journalism gives a more realistic appraisal.
https://www.indianpunchline.com/putins-victory-is-a-geopolitical-reality

For a more nuanced view of current activities in Ukraine. The Moon of Alabama blog is indispensable.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/03/russia-is-at-war-.html#more
Any idea of exacerbating this conflict by going head to head with Russia by NATO will be idiotic to say the least.
Re: Ukraine [message #97624 is a reply to message #97556] Fri, 12 April 2024 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
I'm not a fan of J.D.Vance. I don't believe in Libertarianism as a viable, realistic means of running an economy. I don't support or ever will Donald Trump. But he nails it with an opinion at the N.Y.Times. End this insufferable conflict. Whether one believes in the heroics of aligning to a NATO nation with all the words of freedom & democracy attached. Ukraine cannot ever win this war and never could even with the support of the US and NATO countries. Period.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html
Re: Ukraine [message #97633 is a reply to message #97624] Wed, 17 April 2024 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Our legislature is debating over funding for two now unjustifiable wars. Both premeditated on ulterior aspirations. Things the public is kept in limbo over. Unless one takes the effort to sift the wheat from the chaff of propaganda. Another aspect to the funding is the electioneering going on in the cycle of US politics. The Ukraine dilemma particularly seems attached to saving face for an initiative doomed from the beginning. When the virtue of a state's sovereignty and affiliation, (Ukraine) is stripped away to show a crap shoot to destabilize another sovereign state in the process, (Russia). The pretense is shown to be hypocritical. Russia will not be compelled to give up its original intent concerning Ukraine. And no amount of re-funding will do anything more than prolong more destruction and death for a lost cause. Drawing it out till a post election cycle would seemingly show a very cynical, ethically vacant philosophy.
Here is what the determination that the Russian effort amounts to. A statement from Dmitry Medvedev, former president, now deputy chairman of the security council of Russia. Would it not be better for everyone involved, especially in Ukraine, to take heed Russia's resolve to not be deterred in finishing the job they actually intended. Not the west's version. Which is a fraud.
https://expert.ru/mnenie/dmitriy-medvedev-u-rossii-kak-i-lyuboy-velikoy-derzhavy-strategicheskie-granitsy-lezhat-daleko-za-predelami-geograficheskikh/
Re: Ukraine [message #97634 is a reply to message #97633] Wed, 17 April 2024 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18792
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Dude! I'm telling you this because we're friends. I respect your thoughts and opinions. But on this one, you've bought into a propaganda that is nothing but hubris. I'm not saying your thoughts are hubris - I'm saying the people you are listening to are spreading an alternate reality that is nothing but hubris.

The whole mission from Putin was motivated by arrogance and anyone siding with that is "cosigning his bullshit."

I know people over there that are fighting for their lives.

Alona's brother Alex went missing - hopefully captured - a couple months ago during a battle near Lugansk.

The Ukrainian people simply want freedom and a choice for a free market system. They want to be westernized. They do not want to be governed by Moscow.

Putin's government has basically become a nation controlled by mobsters. It's like what would have happened here if organized criminals were appeased and even courted instead of being prosecuted. Not that we're perfect here - sometimes it looks like mobsters run Washington too - but believe me, it's a lot worse over there.

I can't believe what has happened in Russia. Their "leadership" is worse than it was during the Soviet Union, which is lower than low. They are now what they claimed to be against. They saw the West as being "fat cat capitalists," greedy and entitled. But in fact, that's what they are now ruled by - the so called "oligarch" novi russki.

At one time, those people assassinated their Tsar. What they have now is much, much worse.

We, here in America, just do not have any visibility into that problem so we are unable to form an informed opinion. Better to have no opinion than to have one formed by propaganda.

Trust me, my friend, the good side here is very one-sided. The good side to take here is "freedom for Ukraine."
Re: Ukraine [message #97637 is a reply to message #97634] Wed, 17 April 2024 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Sorry Wayne, I feel opposite. The Ukrainians could have had, and can still have when this god awful mess is over. All the neoliberal free market misery that we have in our country. The Russians have stated over and over their intent with Ukraine. And it doesn't include reclaiming the Baltic's or for Christ's sake Europe. That is pure unadulterated bull. It's been well established our diplomatic meddling with the current Ukraine government to commit to this futile waste of humanity on the NATO pretense. It could have been averted at the onset of the full scale military commencement. I'm afraid it's western propaganda that has pulled the wool over the public's eyes. I've presented that in this thread and it's anyone's choice to disagree. But as usual with our foreign entanglements. It snowballs into a giant fecal mess. Scores of people perish, destruction is wrought, and we walk away on to other malfeasance.
We're doing that with Taiwan. We're perilously close to being pulled into war with Iran with our commitment to indulge a long standing apartheid and now genocidal committing Israel. The governments of Iraq, Sudan and Niger want our military out of their country, that we ignore.

The trouble with this country is that it has lost all sense of virtue that it possessed after the end of WWII. We have become as our economic doctrine has shown to be. Selfish, obstinate, arrogant and corrupt. We see it in our politics, our financial institutions and most evidently our fraudulent diplomacy.
I understand Wayne that with your connection to that part of the world, that it carries a certain amount of emotional and sentimental weight. With that perhaps a certain amount of bias. These events are all out of that realm. The world of government plans and actions transcend our personal lives till unless we get caught up in actions that get out of hand. Let's hope we don't have to face what the Ukraine's have. I still contend with what I comprehend, they never had to. There are many other people who think the same. I used to share the same views Wayne as you and most Americans. But I don't take in what available information verbatim without investigation when contradictions arise. I believe the contradictions I've followed outweigh the prevailing sentiment.
Re: Ukraine [message #97994 is a reply to message #97637] Mon, 09 September 2024 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
A rational discussion on the irrational foreign policy of nation states. Economist Jeffrey Sachs has a dialogue with political scientist John Mearsheimer on his new book, How States Think. Delving into the study of how nations and leaders with their advisors come to form their international policies. Mearsheimer and his co-writer Sebastian Rosado, looked at 14 cases of international and US national policy decisions and how the process was arrived at.

In all 14 they found all to be similar from authoritarian or democratically aligned governments in the way policy was derived. All by a small inner circle of people in the government. And ironically they found that democratic governments tended to "sell" policy to their general public by basically lying by creating a cover story or narrative to bolster their policy decisions. They found that most particularly in the lead up to the US Iraqi war.
A very interesting discussion with two highly regarded academician's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkvmQAJ8AQU
Re: Ukraine [message #97997 is a reply to message #97994] Thu, 12 September 2024 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
A key component of how this God awful mess got traction and put into motion is admitted to by Victoria Nuland. Now a retired diplomat to Ukraine. This whole thing could have and should have been averted but for our insufferable, idiotic, stupid, arrogant foreign policy. What the pundits in the know are saying is this will play out until after the November US election. So, let even more lives be wasted in this obscene cause perpetrated by the western NATO alliance. Sick! Just as our Israeli policy is.

https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/victoria-nuland-ukraine-peace-deal
Re: Ukraine [message #97998 is a reply to message #97997] Thu, 12 September 2024 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18792
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

My interpretation of what was said in that link is that the so-called "peace deal" proposed by Putin right after his attack was a really shitty deal that nobody in their right mind would take.

"Victoria Nuland says about as clearly as a diplomat can that the U.S. scuttled the peace deal on the table in March 2022 because it would have required Ukraine to agree to limits on weapons it would purchase."
Re: Ukraine [message #97999 is a reply to message #97998] Fri, 13 September 2024 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Based on our discussion Wayne I'm not surprised with your narrow interpretation on this.
But the article and admission by Nuland gives credence along with other admissions from Ukraine negotiators and even Boris Johnson as Prime Minister of Britain has said. Which a few decent journalists and scholars have been saying all along.

That our western NATO influence was crucial in coaxing the Ukraine government towards this proxy war with Russia. Because the lead up even to the Istanbul peace summit had been years prior of negotiations with the civil war going on in eastern Ukraine that we were arming and financing. Notwithstanding the color revolution in 2014 in Ukraine Nuland was largely influential in administering. And the thread of NATO expansion planning in our State Department and Pentagon from the mid nineties on that was to culminate with putting Ukraine in place, the final piece of the puzzle towards 'containing' Russia.

Which all along in that time period was and is evidently still Vladimir Putin and the consensus of Russia's government consistently has addressed as a demarcation that would trigger conflict.

Our country in the 1960's almost went nuclear toe to toe with the Soviet Union over arms placement in Cuba. Though we had first put equivalent arms in Turkey. But as our policy of the old Monroe Doctrine exemplifies. No other country will impose their influence on our hemisphere much less our very own boarder with military capability.

Yet Russia, who lost over 25 million people in WWII by the Nazi's, and has been invaded over the centuries by many countries has no right to sovereignty in their security of their borders.

Our country has overstepped our bounds with our concept of exceptionalism and indispensability in this world with our financial/military dominance. It's rather an inheritance from the British empire. That has been played out in history with all the empire states. Romans, Ottoman, Persian. On and on with military adventurism.

This Ukraine chapter will play out till negotiations with terms favorable to what Russia wanted all along. No NATO up to their boarder. It's another sad chapter in a long line of fizzled out foreign policy fiasco's our country has promoted over the last half a century.
Isn't it time to reflect on that legacy and craft a different approach?
Re: Ukraine [message #98003 is a reply to message #97999] Sun, 15 September 2024 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Rusty is currently offline  Rusty
Messages: 1192
Registered: May 2018
Location: Kansas City Missouri
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Another great back story to the wicked web we weave. Jeffrey Sachs, a name I've mentioned several times with respect. An economist that was privy to the collapse of the Soviet Union and was asked to help with their floundering economy then. Recounts his attempts to get policy in place to help with their economic problems. All rejected by our government. He mentions how a fraudulent incentive program was hatched that led to the Russian oligarchy becoming entrenched in their economy.
Mr. Sachs had successfully implemented an economic agenda in Poland prior that had used debt forgiveness and a means to ramp up their economy that was similar to the Marshall Plan used in war ruined Germany that helped with the German miracle with their economy.

No such respect was afforded to Russia. Who had been our allies in WWII and who essentially destroyed the Nazi's military capability hastening the end of the 3rd Reich. Our Russia phobia has gone on unabated since the end of that war. But it goes back of course much further. Back even beyond from the Russian revolution and the whole concept of socialism and communism. The word socialism to a capitalist is like a crucifix to a vampire.
What Mr. Sachs is saying ties into what our whole foreign policy has amounted to post WWII. The wicked web we weave.

https://www.racket.news/p/a-true-shock-economist-jeffrey-sachs
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