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How about the Beta 10CX [message #44376 is a reply to message #44370] Mon, 12 April 2004 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JLapaire is currently offline  JLapaire
Messages: 156
Registered: May 2009
Master
Hi Wayne,

I KNOW you've thought of this, thot I'd ask.
The motor is kind of in between the Alpha and the Delta, might make usable thumpity and pretty decent single-point-source. The HF wouldn't be as sweet as with Bill's horns, but soundstage improvements might make up for it. A poor man's Unity type?

John

Re: How about the Beta 10CX [message #44377 is a reply to message #44376] Mon, 12 April 2004 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I loved the coaxials you made with your piezo's. Really clever idea. As for the Beta 10CX, you could sure mount one to this midhorn and see how it worked. For a coaxial driver, it would probably be best to use a symmetrical crossover instead of the cross-connected pseudo 1st/3rd I've used.

Re: Implementation [message #44378 is a reply to message #44375] Mon, 12 April 2004 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adrian Mack is currently offline  Adrian Mack
Messages: 568
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
HAHA. Its raining today. About time too, its over a month into Autumn and its the first rainfall we've had.

funny old woofers [message #44379 is a reply to message #44375] Mon, 12 April 2004 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
Messages: 471
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
post the response of them! the best thing when u find old woofers and plug them onto generic boxes and they go ok -so funny :P

Re: Implementation [message #44380 is a reply to message #44378] Mon, 12 April 2004 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
http://www.audioroundtable.com/images/big_grin.gif
Dimensions [message #44381 is a reply to message #44377] Tue, 13 April 2004 06:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JLapaire is currently offline  JLapaire
Messages: 156
Registered: May 2009
Master
Are the dimensions given as INSIDE? So the throat is 4.5 x 4.5 for a compression ratio of about 3:1 with the Delta 10?

A question about HF mating - would the use of H290 instead of H295 allow less padding of the Delta due to less CD pull-up required?

Discontinuity in the horn flare will probably rule out the 10CX in this application now that I think about it. If I had one I'd try it anyway though.

Once again, thanks for sharing your designs. Simple = Elegant, especially when the engineering is sound (no pun intended).

John



Re: funny old woofers [message #44382 is a reply to message #44379] Tue, 13 April 2004 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bill Wassilak is currently offline  Bill Wassilak
Messages: 402
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Nothing wrong with that, old drivers that I had no T/S parameters for I just measured the Fs and went with a box and experimented with different tunings from there. That's part of the fun. :)

Bill W.

Re: Implementation [message #44383 is a reply to message #44369] Tue, 13 April 2004 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GarMan is currently offline  GarMan
Messages: 960
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (2nd Degree)
Wayne,

Since Eminence stopped production of the PDS3003, this midrange presents an awesome way to move the 18" PI's into a three-way. PDS2002, the midrange horn, with the 18" drivers in 4PI or 7PI configuration sound like a winner to me.

Gar.

Re: Dimensions [message #44386 is a reply to message #44381] Tue, 13 April 2004 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Yes, those are inside dimensions. The H295 horn needs EQ, so many of the padding issues would still remain. You could use passive components as I have, or remove them and go with active instead. But either way, there is going to need to be some HF compensation or a super-tweeter and the woofer system must be considered too. There's lots of good options and ways to implement this.

Re: Implementation [message #44390 is a reply to message #44383] Wed, 14 April 2004 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18670
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Me too. I'll be rolling them out like this as time permits. Most of the design work is done, and now I just need to put things on paper and draw up plans. This will happen over the course of the next few months. You can already see the outline of what is coming, and there is enough information to assemble each of the new products already.

I'm planning a lot of incremental changes. Many models will be different, but will retain much that is the same too. One of the priorities for me was a transition that allowed a smooth and smart upgrade path, so that anyone who bought a speaker or kit from me can implement the improvements without penalty. This is true whether your π speakers were made in 1980, 1990 or just last month.

What I mean is that upgrades won't require throwing away a bunch of stuff and starting over. You might toss a capacitor, or you might swap out something for an improved part. But in general, the improvements I'm working on are incremental.

In many cases, existing crossovers won't even need to be replaced; They will be reused almost entirely and with fairly little modification. That was an important design criteria for me. I like being able to at least allow for the possibility of using off-the-shelf assemblies, and re-use of existing components and assemblies where possible. So I think these upgrades are pretty cool.

I plan to merge the Professional and Audiophile Series, implementing the π midhorn with a JBL 2012 on Professional Series seven π and seven π-18 cornerhorn systems. Essentially, the Audiophile Series seven π and the Professional Series seven π-18 speakers will become one and the same, using a JBL 18" woofer and a JBL 10" mid.

I intend to introduce a π cornerhorn family based on the Eminence Magnum Series woofers; These will use the midhorn and will probably adopt the Audiophile Series name. Both Audiophile and Professional Series lines use drivers with flux stabilization, and that was always key in my mind for these designations.

The rest of the π cornerhorns will take advantage of the π midhorn, using an Eminence Delta 10 driver. This is the way the π cornerhorn was originally intended, and while I like the performance of current models, the extra cost and complexity is not all that great. It will increase the cost of each cornerhorn about $200.00, but I think the improvement is worth the price.

To look back, the π cornerhorn and folded horns were originally three-way designs. But some two-way variants were made a long time ago that proved quite popular. Then and now, they are really interesting, with that "where is the sound coming from" all-around-the-room magic. Wives love them because they sound great and they blend into the room. So I'll still offer plans to anyone who requests them (just like the Peavey CH-3 versions from a few years ago). But this year, the cornerhorns go back to being a three-way using the π midhorn.

In this configuration, the woofer becomes essentially a subwoofer, and the midhorn takes most of the load. The mid/high crossover is already worked out, and it can be implemented with existing off-the-shelf components making it a pretty good deal for everyone. So I think it's a winner.

Most people used the ten π purely as a midbass cabinet, as it was originally intended. The new π midhorn can be easily incorporated, and the combination makes an excellent system. My plans here are to leave implementation of the ten π up to the person assembling the system, as it really lends itself to a modular approach. It's a wide-bandwidth midbass horn, and is useful for a variety of applications.

All one π, two π, three π and four π speakers will remain as they are, but the four π-18 will be used only in it's subwoofer configuration, sans mid-tweeter. The box size and tuning of the π-18 speaker cabinet is identical to the subwoofer already.

And finally, there's the new eight π loudspeaker. Many people wanted a hot-rod two π, and this new loudspeaker design satisfies that desire. I think it's a pretty cool "little" speaker. It just sort of happened. You and others were looking at the two π design and wanting to soup-it-up a little, and the midhorn was in the works anyway. So kind of like the chocolate and peanut butter Reese's commercials, the two just sort of fell together in what I think is a really groovy retro-meets-modern design.

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