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Re: First Impressions [message #20795 is a reply to message #20794]

Sat, 09 April 2005 13:29

Wayne Parham
Messages: 18784
Registered: January 2001

Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Yeah, I can't get behind that kind of reasoning either. It's like the stone age or something. But regardless, if the product is good and sounds good, it might be an attractive alternative to Fostex and Lowthers. Maybe better cabinets can be made though.

I think it would have been good for him to have displayed his products at GPAF. Maybe next year he'll be able to make it. It's only a five hour drive for him, and it would let people hear the products instead of just read about them.

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Re: First Impressions [message #20796 is a reply to message #20795]

Sat, 09 April 2005 14:30

Manualblock
Messages: 4973
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (13th Degree)

Thanks Martin and Wayne; I know he believes that the Q value has no real meaning because I asked that specific question. And he did state his position exactly as you say Martin; that most of his drivers have the similar Fs and efficiency rating, with lowish xmax. I had asked about the small 8" P audio but just could not see it performing well in an off the shelf cab of that size.

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Re: I must ask about stuffing.... [message #20797 is a reply to message #20785]

Sat, 09 April 2005 15:23

lon
Messages: 760
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (2nd Degree)

I have come to view speaker cabinets as instruments: a guitar body
for instance.

This is not applicable to all designs. And I wonder if the
cone breakup that I hear may come from what you are describing.

Could be. Maybe I'm just going deaf.

I don't have a chance to hear anyone else's homebuilds.

Last night I was at the local symphony (in volunteer usher service)
and I was trying to hear what the concert hall would sound like from
2 little speakers in MLTL boxes. I decided I'd never be playing
up to those volume levels. The concert hall is the concert hall and
home is home.

There was some real low notes from a section of bowed bass that
was very effective. I don't know if I could ever get that low and quiet at the same time.

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Enclosure Size and Tuning [message #20799 is a reply to message #20794]

Sat, 09 April 2005 19:28

FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

The enclosure is 2.5 cu ft with two 3" ports that are 3/4" long (they're just cutouts in the baffle). So he's using a 71hz tuning frequency, far above what I would have expected. It actually sounds very warm in a nice sort of way, with no bass extension below 60hz. David tells me that people who have listened to his drives with lower tuning all prefer the higher tuning because of the increased warmth. But the characteristic that's bothering me has nothing to do with the bass response - it's a peak of about 10dB between 4khz and 8khz that imparts a "shouty" quality to these drivers. My Fostex drivers sounded bright when I first got them, but I don't recall them sounding this bright. In all fairness, I need to give these drivers some breakin time before I judge them. The build quality seems similar to the Fostex FE series drivers, it may even be the same frame, and the AN drivers are a bit heavier than the Fostex because of their larger magnets.

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Re: Enclosure Size and Tuning [message #20800 is a reply to message #20799]

Sat, 09 April 2005 19:52

Martin
Messages: 220
Registered: May 2009

Master

Are you listening to the speaker directly on axis? Sometimes listening a little off axis can tame this type of problem as the divers become directional and the off axis response starts to fall off.

Martin

Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design

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Re: First Impressions [message #20801 is a reply to message #20799]

Sat, 09 April 2005 23:33

ronbrady
Messages: 10
Registered: May 2009

Chancellor

Hi Fred
I took some time to run a few simulations for you in WinISD for a bass reflex enclosure of 2.5 cu. ft. tuned at 71Hz for the Nirvana 8" using the published specs and I must say that it is one of the most unattractive alignments for that driver and box combo. There is a -2db hole from 100-200Hz and a +3db peak at 75Hz. I continued to run the simulation to try and fit that driver to that box and the best alignment I could come up with is a port tuning of 41Hz which would use just one of your 3" ports and would be 2.25" long but the worst part is that the qes must be changed by adding an 8.5 ohm resistor in order to get the qts up to .40 which is about the minimum for this box and driver combo. Unfortunately the addition of 8.5 ohms of series resistance will throw away a lot of effiency but for that size box I don't see any easy alternative. I could run some sims for a smaller box for you if you like but it looks to me that this driver really would work best in a horn style enclosure. I hope that some of these quys will be able offer you a better solution.
Best wishes
ron brady

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Re: First Impressions [message #20802 is a reply to message #20801]

Sun, 10 April 2005 03:42

FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

I did the same simulation and got the same 2dB hole and 3dB peak. But when I have measured the actual in room response of other speakers from the listening position I have found much greater variations, especially from room to room. So while it looks bad in theory it doesn't really sound bad to my ears, but you're right about the fact that no bass reflex alinment works well for these drivers unless you add resistance.

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Toe-In [message #20803 is a reply to message #20800]

Sun, 10 April 2005 04:20

FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I have found the peak is minimized using just a bit of toe-in. This seems to be the best placement for reducing the brightness without compromising the soundstage.

In all fairness to these drivers I need to give them more break in time. Lowther and Fostex drivers are reputed to sound overly bright and bass shy for a fairly extended break in period, and I would expect the same from these.

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Re: Audio Nirvana Speakers [message #20805 is a reply to message #20752]

Sun, 10 April 2005 10:32

Scott_M
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2009

Esquire

Fred,

I was looking to purchase some fostex 167e drivers and Madisound was out of stock for a month or two - so I took a chance and ordered the Audio Nirvana 6.5" ones instead. I haven't had a chance to set up a baffle to mount them in so I can't comment on their sound, yet, but am very interested following your progress as your drivers break in. For me, I already have a rear loaded horn for my 206e drivers, so I wanted something I could build a small ported box enclosure for.

Scott.

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Re: Audio Nirvana Speakers [message #20806 is a reply to message #20805]

Sun, 10 April 2005 18:54

FredT
Messages: 704
Registered: May 2009

Illuminati (1st Degree)

Did you order any speaker enclosure plans with them? They seem to fit the 1.3 cu ft enclosure nicely. If I did this correctly you could use two 2-7/8" id by 5" long ports to achieve a tuning freq of 61hz. This gives a -3dB point of about 56hz, with a peak of less than 1dB at about 72hz. Regardless of what alignment you use I will be interested in knowing whether you are hearing more brightness in the 4-8khz range than you heard with the 206E's when they were new.

I'll definitely post a follow up, but it will be a while. For now I will say that the concern about the bass alignment is valid, but a variation of +3 / -2dB really isn't a big concern to me. The actual in-room response I have measured on speakers that are known have very flat anechoic response curves has varied by much more than this, especially below 200hz. As I mentioned in a previous post, in all fairness to these drivers I need to give them 100 hours of break in time and then do a critical evaluation.

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