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Re: Fostex 206 E drivers: not criticizing anyone;s philosophy [message #19774 is a reply to message #19773] Thu, 19 February 2004 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Jim,
What I would love to do is the following:
1. Measure your box out to predict the performance, and tweak it (things like carpet, seal, etc)
2. Listen to it without any correction
3. Listen to it with correction (as per Martin;s advice).
This will be fun!
-akhilesh

Re: Fostex 206 E drivers: not criticizing anyone;s philosophy [message #19791 is a reply to message #19767] Sat, 21 February 2004 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phil Wilson is currently offline  Phil Wilson
Messages: 23
Registered: May 2009
Chancellor
Interesting posts - the filter sounds like an interesting tweak. Generally I agree with Akhilesh - the route I took was to get a reasonably priced amp that produces a good pure couple of watts along with a very sensitive speaker to compensate for the lack of power in the amp. I spoke to Steve Deckert about speaker matching with his amp before I got the Zen and at that time (about a year ago) he told me the 206E was the best match he'd heard (he may have backed off that since then, I'm not sure); he also likes the Lowthers. On a related note, If memory serves, I think Steve built some kind of filter for Lowthers (I think he calls it the Lowther Gizmo) but more to reduce the mid-high "bloom" some complain of on the Lowthers. I don't think Martin is all alone out there on his branch, and to me the filter tweak is more "zen-like" than adding drivers. If there was a filter to "supplement" the bass on the Fostex I would definitely try it out.

By the way, do you have to have a filter (or a crossover) if you use a driver that only produces a certain range of frequency? For example, it seems like if you use a super-tweeter that only goes down to 10K-15K it, or a sub that only gets up to 60Hz-80Hz, could you play all three drivers "full range" without a crossover? Would this require a separate amp for each driver? Would that still introduce phase inconsistency problems due to the drivers not firing at the same time (I guess it would)? I don't know much about this stuff, so if I am being an idiot just ignore me. Phil.

Re: Fostex 206 E drivers: not criticizing anyone;s philosophy [message #19800 is a reply to message #19791] Sun, 22 February 2004 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Hi Phil,
WE'll need crossovers, otherwise the drivers would get damaged. Crossovers would have phase issues. Could we hear the phase issues? I doubt it.
I bought the line too that "phase inconsistencies are bad" and then I heard crossovers and for the life of me could not hear the "phase". Wayne & I had an interesting talk yesterday too where he said the same thing.
BTW, A bass reflex box introduces phase inconsistencies as well.

You will need a separate amp for each driver only for active crossovers, passive ones use the same amp.
thanx
-akhilesh

Re: Fostex 206 E drivers: not criticizing anyone;s philosophy [message #19801 is a reply to message #19800] Sun, 22 February 2004 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently online  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18784
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
Actually, practically everything in the system introduces a phase shift. Both vented and sealed boxes shift phase in the resonance region. Horns shift phase too, and it vascillates quite a bit in the lower frequency region of a horn's operating band. Inductors and capacitors shift phase, not only in the loudspeaker crossover but also in the amplifier and associated electronics. Even the speaker driver itself introduces a phase shift, which is in one direction below resonance and in the other above it. So phase shifts are just a part of the physics of the matter.

Good designs limit anomalous behavior that results from these phase shifts. A loudspeaker system having more than one radiator can be in situations where the two radiators are pressurizing certain places in the listening room out of phase. This causes nulls, and that is what people notice. So I don't believe people notice phase but rather interactions and the amplitude anomalies that result.

Re: Fostex 206 E drivers: not criticizing anyone;s philosophy [message #19804 is a reply to message #19801] Mon, 23 February 2004 05:59 Go to previous message
akhilesh is currently offline  akhilesh
Messages: 1275
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (3rd Degree)
Yeah....what he said...
:-)
-akhilesh

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