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Re: MTM Pi midhorns [message #16467 is a reply to message #16465] Thu, 13 May 2004 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18784
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
There are a few things that happen when you array horns or place them near boundaries.

As long as the two horns are less than a quarter wavelength apart, you can consider them tightly spaced. In fact, this is true up to about a third wavelength spacing. The idea is that the difference between each sound source and the listener shouldn't be a half wavelength or multiples of a half wavelength because that causes cancelation nulls.

When placing horns near a boundary or other similar horns, it changes their radiation angle. This has several effects on their performance, potentially changing their response and dispersion and making them act like a larger horn. This is like the way some antennas work, having a single conductor but forming a dipole using a large metal surface or the ground as a reflector or "ground plane." Every car antenna is done this way, with the body of the car functioning as a ground plane. It effectively doubles the length of the antenna. This same situation is also true of the boundary conditions for horns.

A sound source radiating in all directions is said to be in freespace, which is radiating 4π steradians. A single horn mounted on a baffle will radiate 180o (2π steradians or half-space) in front of the horn, and the baffle restricts output towards the rear. If placed in a 90o reflector, like the floor/wall or wall/wall junctions, radiation angle is further constrained to quarter-space, π steradians. And in a corner, it is reduced to eighth-space which is π/2 steradians. These are integral "pie-slice" divisions, and there are infinite other radiation angles possible between 0 and 4π. In fact, horns themselves are fundamentally devices that reduce the radiation angle to some fractional amount.

Other sound sources act as reflectors too. Using another antenna example, look at what is used for beam antennas. Not many homes have them anymore, but just twenty years ago, you'd see an array antenna on every home for the television. It's formed by having a series of dipole antennas spaced so that parasitic radiation from each element interacts with the other adjacent elements to control the pattern. The situation is similar with horns, in that if you take two similar horns and mount them one above the other on a baffle, the horns will act as reflectors to one another. Assuming each horn is driven with the same electrical signal and they are tightly spaced, each horn will only have to cover quarter-space. The baffle reduces radiation angle to half-space, and each horn takes half that.

In the case of loudspeaker horns, I find the most common reasons to use methods that decrease radiation angle are directional control, increased output and improved low-end response. Prosound applications often focus on directional control and increased output. But high-fidelity applications almost always have the priority on frequency response. Folks put their basshorns in corners so the bottom end is made deeper and less peaky. In fact, the corner does most of the job and the part of the horn that's inside the cabinet does very little. Midbass and midrange horns are also often improved using similar approaches, baffle mounting or near proximity to room boundaries.

Even into the lower midrange, wavelengths are still pretty large. Middle C is 260Hz, with a wavelength of over 4 feet. Just one octave down, you're at 130Hz, which I'd consider to be roughly the start of the midrange band. This is nearly nine feet long. So a midrange horn that doesn't have dimensions of this general scale is really undersized somewhat. You'll sometimes find midrange horns that large in theaters, but most of even the largest home speakers get nowhere near this big, certainly not for a midrange horn.

That's where boundary conditions and reduced radiation angle can really help. At low frequencies where the mouth may be too small to control dispersion, output is still limited to the radiation angle formed by the environment. This is why small horns receive more benefit from reduced radiation angle than larger horns do. A small horn becomes less effective at low frequencies, and the boundary conditions themselves become a significant part of the horn.

Using room boundaries, close proximity to other horns or even baffle mounting, the horn is made to act like a larger horn, particularly at the lowest frequencies where it becomes weak. This is true not only for basshorns, but also for midbass and even midrange horns up to a few hundred Hertz. Most of them are really a bit small. As the frequency drops, the horn becomes too small to maintain the directional pattern of its side walls and the pattern widens. At the lowest frequencies, it becomes practically omnidirectional. So an undersized horn is unable to perform at the lowest frequencies unless it is used in an environment where radiation angle is constrained in some way.

Hope this have given you some thoughts to ponder, and helps with some ideas for implementing your midbass and/or midrange horns.

Re: MTM Pi midhorns [message #16469 is a reply to message #16467] Fri, 14 May 2004 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andreas paulsen is currently offline  andreas paulsen
Messages: 50
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Thanks Wayne !! really a good explanation. On the other hand I nearly fell guilty at having you write i up.

Cheers
andreas

Re: midbass horn with 2226 [message #16481 is a reply to message #16448] Sat, 15 May 2004 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
Messages: 471
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)

hiya

a Frequency response like this is what your looking for?

with only 1800cm mouth doesnt make much difference.

Have you see volvotreters website? he uses a 12" for 100hz+

Cheers!

Re: midbass horn with 2226 [message #16485 is a reply to message #16481] Sun, 16 May 2004 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andreas paulsen is currently offline  andreas paulsen
Messages: 50
Registered: May 2009
Baron
yes thats what i am looking for. I think a 12" would be better for the frequency, but the 2226 are allready in stock, so to say.

cheers
andreas

Re: midbass horn with 2226 [message #16486 is a reply to message #16481] Sun, 16 May 2004 05:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andreas paulsen is currently offline  andreas paulsen
Messages: 50
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Hi Mike.e

What do you mean by 1800cm mouth, do you mean 1800cm^2 area, or ?

Cheers
andreas

Re: midbass horn with 2226 [message #16489 is a reply to message #16486] Sun, 16 May 2004 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
Messages: 471
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
yes 1800cm^2 sorry.
Id hate a late night out * loud drum n bass until 5am :-) *

:-)

Re: midbass horn with 2226 [message #16490 is a reply to message #16485] Sun, 16 May 2004 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike.e is currently offline  Mike.e
Messages: 471
Registered: May 2009
Illuminati (1st Degree)
It seems to cover the approximate range you want yes?

Cheers

Re: midbass horn with 2226 [message #16491 is a reply to message #16490] Sun, 16 May 2004 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andreas paulsen is currently offline  andreas paulsen
Messages: 50
Registered: May 2009
Baron
Ohh yes it does, just what I want., however baby screams from 5am has taken it's toll on by brain :)

And by the way i need a new place to put the goddamn horns. Baby's taken up an awfull lot of room.

cheers
andreas

Re: midbass horn with 2226 [message #16497 is a reply to message #16491] Sun, 16 May 2004 21:59 Go to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18784
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)
I remember those days. No sleep, lots of frustration. A baby crying at 5:00am is like an air horn in your ear. So it was funny that the links at the bottom of your post were for air horns.

That must be why God made sex so pleasant, 'cause it it weren't really great, no one would ever have kids. But you gotta love 'em. And it gets better in a few months.

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