Thanks.

Thanx Bill.

I mentioned in the text that the soundstage is much improved (see the comment about piano position) and the bass is very good but I can expand on that a bit.

One of my worries was that the smaller cabinet wouldn't yield the bass impact of the larger and it doesn't, quite. The bass is somehat softer, most noticeable with the 70 watt solid state Classe, less so with the 1.8 watt parafeed 45 tube amp. Parafeed is really something! The quality of the bass, tho', is improved. Bass notes are better delineated; it's easier to follow the bass line whether acoustic upright or electric and the pedal tones of the organ, at least above 40 Hz (I guess) seem somehow louder.

I'm not a fan of sub-woofers, I've alsways found them to muddy the mid-range, but I have a pair of 15" Daytons, a pair of 250 watt plate amps, and the BatSpeaker boxes so I'm going to see what subs do for the bass. I can easily live without reinforcement, but I'll give it a try in the coming months.

The impression of players on a stage is really important to me, number 2 in importance after accurate tone. I recall my Theatre 4 Pis having little depth to the stage; the BatSpeakers had good width and depth and the players or singers were more or less well-positioned. The Pros, however, are in a different constellation.

The Union Station CD, Live is a great reference because I also have the DVD and know where the players are. What's amazing to me, and something I've never heard before, is that the hall ambience stretches from wall-to-wall but the music doesn't. Just as you can see in the DVD, Jerry Douglas is positioned well away from stage right but, as seen from the audience, on the left side of the group. That's exactly what you hear on the CD through the 4Pi Pros: there is an ambience, a sense of air extending to the left wall of my room but the sound of his Dobro, instead of being all the to the left wall, is coming from a spot a few feet closer to the center. Moving to the right you hear Alison, then Dan and finally Ron Block, with a similar gap to the right wall. Once again, however, there is a sense of the stage extending all the way to the right wall. That's incredibly unique! Both amplifiers, BTW, convey the same impression.

So how do the pros compare to the BatSpeakers? Well, with the horn damped and the room sorted out, if the boxes don't work out as subs, they'll wind up in that graveyard of speaker cabinets, Spkrmans garage.

Bill

As I stated before this is helpful for me to formulate what I need to do about my future speakers.

I have listened to Wayne's 4 Pi Pro's and Steve Brown's 4 - Pi's with GPA 399-16 and Edgar 500Hz salad bowl horns.
Thanks Wayne and Steve.

For some reason I keep detecting a slightly bright spot in the upper mid to lower treble region, and I can't put my finger on where it is originating from. Either it is the JBL 2226 breaking up in that region, horn reflections, room reflections, or on axis listening.
And finally, it could just be my hearing that is the source.

Your reference to the bright, or clean sound character that you feel is possibly coming from a reflection bouncing off of your wood paneling, gives me another possibility to obsess over.

My ideal speaker would be able to have it all. Like 30Hz to 20kHz -3db, capable of playing at 110 db sound levels cleanly on a SET, maintain a realistic sounstage with depth that is well balanced, and image like a mini-monitor while maintaining the overall coherence intended in the recording. I am not asking for much, am I? So far, I have not found that fictional speaker. Wayne's 4 Pi Pro two-way do get me most of the way there though.

I will be experiementing with the 4 Pi Pro using The Beyma CP-385Nd 1" drivers and TD-250 horns for starters. The JBL 90 by 50 degree wave guide that was used in the Audio Karma group collaboration looks like a good horn to try as well.

Another monitor style speaker consiting of the above Beyma components and a 12" Ciare woofer down to 80Hz is in the works.
I want to find out if a smaller diameter woofer, 10" - 12" will eliminate this upper range brightness. Therfore starting with the Ciare due to it lower frequency ability and efficency over most 10" drivers.

After listening to Wayne's and Steve's 4 Pi speaker systems.
I feel like the bottom frequencies will have to be filled in with subwoofers, three to four of them, while using the 4 Pi's as monitors, likely from 50Hz - 60Hz and up. That is if my Bass fix is to be fulfilled.

Please keep us updated on the changes in your system and their sonic benefits, pro's and con's?

And a final few questions, is your wooden tone arm DIY, or store bought?
And what is the source of it's design? It looks great!

Thanks again!

Norris

I hope to make it back over to Steve's house in the future to hear his speakers after all of the recent changes that he has made.
I know Steve has been to busy for his own life with his job and resposibilities.
I am hoping that he will get a mind break soon, he deserves it.

I am game for coming over for a listen to your Four Pi Pro's. Just let me know when you are up and running again?

Thanks

Norris