The compasison I ended up for the real A/B was the Magnepan MMG.

For those who are not familiar with the MMG's, they are the entry level speaker in the Magnepan line(as the Studio Series is the entry level in the Pi line) and cost $550.00 shipped(I paid $500.00 a few years ago). The MMG's are a planar speaker, and have a sensitiviey of 86db into 4ohms(and is in fact a 4ohm load which if I am correct translates into 83db into 8ohms). The low end rolls of at about 50hz. I did not use a subwoffer at all for either speaker. Which really speaks well for the MMG's as they are not rated as low on the frequency scale as the 2Pi's.

The only real test for the 2Pi Towers as they easily blew away these cheaper speakers was the MMG. This comparison was not a easy comparison to make as the MMG's are a planar speaker where they Pi's are not. Another thing is the sensitivity of the two are so so different, and finally the type of amp(SS vrs. tube) used for this test probably made a big difference in the results.

I will try not make this long.

I believe the fact that a SS amp was used in the comparison I believe favored the Magnepans and unfortunatly I do not have a good stereo tube amp(yet).

I will start out by saying that I really wanted the 2Pi Towers the win this comparison and believed that they would, but they did not.

The MMG's won the contest hands down at all sound levels except below 72db where the dynamics of the 2Pi's gave them the edge and above 95db where my SS amp began to strain to drive the MMG's(as my SS amp is not even adaquate to drive the MMG's to thier potential). Even above 95db I prefered the MMG's due to the fact that the 2Pi Towers were just not as listenable(and were actually more harsh) at that sound pressure level even though the distortion in the MMG's(actually the distortion was from the amp) above 95db was becoming obvious.

I used a Sansui 9090DB rated conservativly at 125 wpc into 8ohms(not rated into 4ohms but lets assume . I also used two preamps to do the comparison. Doing this had pluses and minuses. The plus was that it allowed me to do imidiate switching between the two speaker models and compare the two side by side. The minus was that it in doing this different DAC's were involved and probably effected the results of the sound due to the different nature of the specific DAC's.

To keep this from getting any long, I will just say that the MMG's are much more listenable and I will even say that in my opinion the MMG's are more musical.

I will also say that I believe that the 2Pi Towers stand a good chance to win the same contest with a good stereo tube amp and I know that many Pi listeners do use tube amps and will not listen to SS given a choice.

I know that this speaker comparison was not a good one in that with these two types I was doing a bit of a apples to oranges comparison and I would not except that I believe that these two speakers represent some of the best values in low end speakers and there seems to be quite and inteset in both lines and both models.

Given the fact that the 2Pi Towers can be build DIY for about two to three hundred buck makes them very desirable for many and with the MMG's due to the fact that they can be delevered to your door for a price of $550.00 makes them desirable as well. The MMG's require good amplification where the 2Pi Towers do not will give the Pi speakers and edge for some while those that already own nice tube amps make them desirable for others.

The 2Pi is a great speaker for the money and I am still amazed at the quality and quantity of bass that these speakers put out, and also by the sensitivity and revealing manor that the music is reproduced. The 2Pi are a GREAT speaker and I am NOT putting the down in this A/B comparsion, they just got outclassed in my opinion by the MMG's(which are not for everyone)

BTW- one other thing to note here about the Magnepan MMG. This speaker is sold very cheap by the manufacture in hope of hooking the listener on the planar sound and then hoping that the listener/customer will upgrade to the more expensive models, I believe that the speaker is subsidised by the more expensive models and Magnepan probably makes little to nothing on the MMG.

cheers,

george

I agree with George below- the dynamics make the sound. Speed and detail in the amps to reproduce attack and decay of notes with speakers that can handle that would be next on my list. These cues set up the psycho-acousical illusion that "re-creates" music, and Pi's do it very well.

I also question the concept that a speaker company is selling a speaker at a loss to get people to buy more expensive models- people that have money to buy more expensive models will do so, people that can't afford them won't. After all, they do give mylar away free with potato chips... :)

P.S. I have been trying a lot of piezo tweaks that I don't want to bore the forum with, but if you still aren't happy after more break in and setup, give me a shout.

The speakers were sufficiently broken in.

As far as the MMG's being rolled off on the low end I would agree that as far a the rating you are correct, but when listening I could not hear the lack of bass frequency as much as the lack of dynamic and possibly at the very low end some musicality but overall the MMG was in my opinion more "musical" thoughout the full range. In reguard to the high end being rolled off... I disgree both in spec and in listening as the MMG spec is rated at 24khz, again I think that the difference in what is being heard is dynamics and not frequency.

I already stated that what may be missing here is the opurtunity for the Pi's to be driven buy a tube amp. If I were to drive the MMG's with many tube amps I believe that I may come to a different conclusion as many tube amps cannot deliver the power that they really need to sound good, hence a "weakness" for the MMG's(and many planars). As many have stated here and also at the Planar Speaker forum, planars can lack dynamics, this is no secret and many have tried planars and come to the same conclusion and returned to "box" speakers. No speaker is perfect and no speaker can do all things well, including Pi speakers. But many are willing to trade of dynamics for sound stage, a great sweet spot and other attributes like being less fatigueing and more musical.

Other factors which could affect the outcome of my A/B comparison compare to your A/B comparison is system components, system synergy, speaker setup, room acoustics, selection of music(I tried everything I listen to including rock, clasical, jazz, easy listening, new age, gospel, country & western, pop, and instrumental and vocals. It was a long listening session) and last but most importantly in my opinion is PERSONAL TASTE.

Personal taste is by far the one factor which will affect the outcome of many listening sessions whether in home doing A/B comparison or in sound rooms at point of sale vendors. This is probably the one greatest factor which enables the audio speaker market to accomadate thousands of speaker brands and manufactures. If everybody liked the same thing(sound and looks) then there would not be such a diverse market for different types of speakers. In fact if you want to take it further we could bring horns( I'm not talking compression horns but folded horns) to the table and inject another type of speaker with a big following which are not everybody's "cup of tea". I will say not more about horns since they are not really part of this topic.

I will close by saying that I can appreciate some of the things that box speakers do including "dynamics", and I do believe that Pi speaker deserve a good look at and I will be building the Theater 4 in hopes of finding a "better" speaker. In fact most of the responses here to my post have refered to the Theater 4 for the MMG comparison so I am even more excited to get going on them and here for myself. I can appreciate the qualities of both types of speakers and can enjoy both. I plan to have a tubed/Pi system as well as a SS/Magnepan speaker and take advantage of the best that both systems will offer my ears and taste.

I hope that all will not take my posting of my listening comparison as a knock on Pi Speakers or especially Wayne personally because I have alot of respect for Wayne the speaker line and many folks here at the Pi speaker forum.
Enjoy the music!

Yes, of course some speakers are better than others... that is why we are all here sharing ideas and experiences and trying new things. For me, my latest try was the 2Pi Tower and and I am not done(with Pi's nor dynamic speakers) as I will be trying out the Theater 4 in the future. Like I said, I WAS impressed with the 2Pi Tower and as I stated it did best some other speakers very easily, in my opinion it was not better than the MMG, JMHO.

As for as dynamics go, it may be ALL ABOUT DYNAMICS for you and many others here but the Magna-planar speakers have a pretty good following and if you include other planars an even bigger following. So, there must be some people out there(including me) who do appreciate the planar sound even while the speakers may not be as dynamic as box speakers. And there must be somethings good about them as some here at the Pi speaker forum can appreciate some of their qualities.

For me personally(my opinion) the "sound stage" and the "sweet spot"(when properly set up) are two traits which favor the planars heavily and are pros that require other good features from MMG competitors to equal or overcome these benifits of planars. If the Theater 4's are as good as many here testify then I will be a happy camper. I AM HOPING the Theater 4's will best the MMG's (for my taste) as I will have found a better speaker than I already have and I will enjoy the music more than I do with the MMG's.

< Now Mags may sound nice to some people as a "stereo", but not to me when you compare them to real music. >


The same could be said for box speakers, it just depends on your taste and frame of reference. And who made you or anybody else here the ones to decide that "the dynamics make the sound" different things sound good to different people.

I did not even post my findings at the Planar Speaker forum because many of the listeners there are too arrogant about the virtues of Maggies and too closed minded to even be supprised that the MMG's would best the 2Pi Towers(if they are even familiar with the Pi's). I would have thought there were be some open minds here to be able to post my opinions without them being questioned or disreguarded, maybe I was wrong. I hope not and there seems to be some good folks around here. I have experienced Wayne to be of great personal help in building my speakers and in fact I have followed this forum for a couple years now and I am impressed by how he deals with folks here at this forum. Wayne if you are reading this... keep up the good work!
Rodney