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computer card/slot confusion [message #25207] Thu, 17 November 2005 06:32 Go to next message
steve f is currently offline  steve f
Messages: 238
Registered: May 2009
Master
Hi Everyone,

I started this topic in the general forum. Wayne asked me to bring it here. I want to use a LMS card (Linear X) in a "modern" computer. Here's the problem. The card requires the use of an ISA slot. Computers don't have them anymore. Solutions and suggestions please.

Steve

LMS ISA card compatibility [message #25208 is a reply to message #25207] Thu, 17 November 2005 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I told you I was going to do some research and report my findings under your thread. I intend to do that this week; Sorry, I haven't done it yet. But I will.

There are two ways you can go besides using the LinearX supplied converter chassis. One is to use a full-sized motherboard to build a PC. Another is to use industrial control modules. I've used several of those for various projects, and they're essentially just rugged and often miniaturized PC boards. You'll still need a full sized chassis because the LMS takes a full-length slot. But my point is there are other options besides traditional PC motherboards.

Please note that there is more involved than just finding a PC with an ISA slot. The LMS card is incompatible with some slots. My guess is that it needs buss speed to be the same as the old original 4.77Mhz IBM PC. Newer computers often ran the buss faster, and occasionally, some ISA cards wouldn't work with the faster buss speed. So you have to test for electrical compatibility as well as physical compatibility.


Re: LMS ISA card compatibility [message #25209 is a reply to message #25208] Thu, 17 November 2005 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
steve f is currently offline  steve f
Messages: 238
Registered: May 2009
Master
Thank you Wayne.

Re: LMS ISA card compatibility [message #25210 is a reply to message #25209] Thu, 17 November 2005 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

I just got off the phone with Chris at LinearX. I'm glad I spoke to him, because after seeing two of David Lee's computers not work with LMS, I suspected the LMS card may be sensitive to buss timing or something. But Chris tells me that he has never run across a system with an ISA buss that wouldn't work with the LMS card.

I have seen some boards not work in ISA slots. I did a little checking to refresh my memory, and the original standard ran the buss at 8.3Mhz and (naturally) had specific timing requirements for setup and hold of each signal line. Some cards are intolerant of deviation from these specs, so as later manufacturers started superceding it, those cards would not work.

But the position of LinearX is that the LMS board is compatible with any motherboard that has an ISA slot.


Re: LMS ISA card compatibility [message #25211 is a reply to message #25210] Thu, 17 November 2005 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
steve f is currently offline  steve f
Messages: 238
Registered: May 2009
Master
Our card is an early one I believe. We bought it at a lower price when a later card was introduced.

Re: LMS ISA card compatibility [message #25212 is a reply to message #25211] Fri, 18 November 2005 08:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

The early cards were slightly different, but I don't know specifics. I was focused on the new cards since I assumed that's what everyone was running. You might want to call Chris at LinearX to learn the specifics of earlier release boards.


Re: computer card/slot confusion [message #25213 is a reply to message #25207] Sun, 20 November 2005 08:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yehuda is currently offline  yehuda
Messages: 4
Registered: May 2009
Esquire
Hi,

I have a SOYO pentium 4 board with an ISA slot.
Check on their web site.
http://www.soyousa.com/products/proddesc.php?id=335

Yehuda.

Re: computer card/slot confusion [message #64992 is a reply to message #25207] Mon, 29 November 2010 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
compguy is currently offline  compguy
Messages: 15
Registered: November 2010
Chancellor
You may also want to try and find a daughter card that will plug into a PCI slot that will give you ISA. I don't know of any off hand, but I have used them in the past before I upgraded my video card to PCI. It should work the same with the sound card.
Re: LMS ISA card compatibility [message #65001 is a reply to message #25208] Tue, 30 November 2010 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adveser is currently offline  Adveser
Messages: 434
Registered: July 2009
Location: USA
Illuminati (1st Degree)
Wayne Parham wrote on Thu, 17 November 2005 11:28

I told you I was going to do some research and report my findings under your thread. I intend to do that this week; Sorry, I haven't done it yet. But I will.

There are two ways you can go besides using the LinearX supplied converter chassis. One is to use a full-sized motherboard to build a PC. Another is to use industrial control modules. I've used several of those for various projects, and they're essentially just rugged and often miniaturized PC boards. You'll still need a full sized chassis because the LMS takes a full-length slot. But my point is there are other options besides traditional PC motherboards.

Please note that there is more involved than just finding a PC with an ISA slot. The LMS card is incompatible with some slots. My guess is that it needs buss speed to be the same as the old original 4.77Mhz IBM PC. Newer computers often ran the buss faster, and occasionally, some ISA cards wouldn't work with the faster buss speed. So you have to test for electrical compatibility as well as physical compatibility.



Wayne, this is why us Computer Electronics guys slow down the PLL chip's operating frequency in a computer by various means. It is usually done to overclock the entire computer close to it's electrical tolerance instead of OC the CPU.

I've gotten a 700Mhz Celeron running at 100Mhz Bus up to 1100Mhz with a 166Mhz Bus. Slowing down is much easier than speeding up. It's a time consuming task to get something that works, but it can be done.


Re: LMS ISA card compatibility [message #65010 is a reply to message #65001] Tue, 30 November 2010 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Wayne Parham is currently offline  Wayne Parham
Messages: 18783
Registered: January 2001
Illuminati (33rd Degree)

Yes, but this is really an ISA buss timing issue, not a local buss or processor thing. Most of my career has been designing microprocessor-driven industrial controllers, and back in the days when the PC used the ISA buss, I designed several controllers that plugged into it.

Early microcontrollers made no distinction between local buss and processor buss - everything was on the same buss, nothing but switching logic and a single clock. Examples are the S100 buss and the ISA buss, as well as countless other proprietary busses that were essentially just connections to the microprocessor's address and data busses.

Add-on cards in early microprocessor systems sometimes had problems, especially if the processor was run at faster speeds. It wasn't long before the processor and buss were separated using newer buss architectures so you could run processor and local memory at high speed and slower peripherals could be run on an interface at their own speed. But the early ones weren't as sophisticated, and everything ran at the speed of processor clock.

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