I wonder, has anyone ever measured this driver.

VMPS uses a modified version of it in their ribbon speakers.
It is said that some Drago guy modifies the drivers for them, but maybe the driver is OK as is ?

There are zillions of these computer speakers popping up used on Ebay.

Anyone got the low down on this driver.

I know the Inventor of it Bruce Thigpen abandoned it for a newer design driver he uses in his current speakers.

Why don't I see anyone but VMPS using this driver ?

In fact, I have never seen it even mentioned anywhere in a Line array discusion.

I see people talking about line arrays of super expensive Scan Speak and Seas drivers, but never see these drivers even mentioned.

Shoot, I have seen pairs of the computer speakers sell on Ebay for 50 dollars.

That means only 25 bucks a driver, certainly cheaper then the expensive convetional drivers used in some line arrays.

• http://www.vmpseurope.com/RM2.htm

There are som many options with a line array that its not necessary to get exotic. Where are you located? North America? Europe? OZ? elsewhere?

Marlboro

Check Ebay, there are hundreds of these computer speakers coming up for sale.

This Drago guy evedently sells them, maybe not the EXACT one he does for VMPS, but I know hje sells them.

Thilo from TC Sounds who makes monster subwoofer drivers is coming out with a line source.

I THINK he plans or is making his OWN ribbon.
In a conversation he mentioned Drago, and I THINK he said he was loooking at somdrivers from him.

This would indicate to me that Drago sells to anyone who will buy his stuff ?

I wonder if anyone has ever run a frequency sweep/distortion measurement on this driver ?

It will not play real low, I know that!

Maybe THAT is why people are not using it, because with a cone driver you eliminate the need for a crossover right in the vital lower midrange ?

I wonder if Jim, Rick or Danny ever played with this driver ?

Strange, I hardly ever see it mentioned, or any data published for it ?

IOW, each driver should contribute it's part to the crossover.

Now, if you say these drivers are only usable to 500 to 600 hz, HOW does VMPS cross over at 280 hz at only 6 db per octave ?

Would not there be a hole in the frequency response ?

Or, are they relying on the woofer/woofers to fill in this missing territory ?

If what you say is true, and 1/2 of the music is below 500 hz as I have been told, then I am listening to a 10 inch woofer in my RM 40's reproducing half my music, LOL

The older pair of RM 40's I have was advertised as being a ribbon speaker from 166 hz up.

The newer ones have a raised crossover point of 288 hz.

My RM 40's use the ribbons up to 10 k, and you say they only go out to 7K ?

The RM 40's I bought used, and are but one of 14 pairs of speakers I currently own.

I have been unable to get them to sound right since I have owned them.

Do not worry about "hurting my feelings" because my EGO is not involved with these.

I hear something really wrong with my pair, and I am asking for help and opinions.

I always seem to get "You just do not have the right stuff in front of them, the putty isn't right, the levels are wrong, they are not bi wired, your wire is not big enough, your amp is shit, you are using a CD Changer, your DAC is bad, etc, etc, etc.

Even though my B&W 801's, my old Magnepan MG 3A's, My VR 4 JR's's, and my new JBL L 7's sound just fine with my set up.

Here is what I hear Jose, I hear a speaker with problems, big time

My ears tell me this midrange driver is not what it is cracked up to be at all.

I hear peaks, dips, and strange distortions in this driver, THIS is what I hear.

I was hoping someone would have some measurements I could see, to see what is going on with these things.

Is it comb filtering, the driver itself, the crossover, or WHAT ?

They use a staggered roll off of the two 10 inch woofers.
The top woofer is really the one going up in frequency to meet the ribbons.
Problem is, at 6 feet tall, this places you about 50 degrees off it's vertical axis!

I have went to using two of the same drivers in my RM 40's.

I need to know about possible interference patterns in my choice of a crossover point.

I have an electronic crossover that is 24 db fixed slop, but adjustable.

My RM 40 has the TRT capacitors in it.

My instincts tell me the only hope for these is to bypass the VMPS crossover, including the TRT's, and use the 24 DB one.

But, I am limited in my crossover choices because of the RM 40 design.
It is what it is, and it is what I have.

The reason I am over here is seeking help!

I want to know IF it is feasible to make these work, or if this is just a bad design that will never sound like I want it to.

The VMPS forum has not been much help, just everyone telling me I need this or that, or don't have this, etc, etc.

This WAS the Flagship design, and one would presume it was SUPPOSED to be right once/

Now, it's "wrong" and now I gotta have some new midwoofer, or CD Wavegude, etc, etc, etc to make it sound right.

What excuse will there be once I invest money in all the stuff I now "need"

"Oh, but you don't have the right wire, your DAC is shit, your putty isn't right, your room isn't treated, your music is poorly recorded, you NEED this amp, etc, etc, etc.

No thanks!

I did not like this arrangement, and was getting a huge hole in the 150 to 600 hz region, imparting a thin, etched, super detailed quality sounding anything but like music.

So, I got another pair of "midwoofers", and used them.

This sounds a little better, but it still ain't right.

Mathmetically, does anyone know HOW far I can take the two woofers up in frequency before I get into severe interference patterns ?

The ribbons use a first order high pass, and there is only an inductor on the woofer.

My gut instinct is that for these speakers to work at all the woofers need to play higher up, and so do the ribbons.

Jose said they don't have any output until 500 hz, and others have said the same to me.
Then why cross em in at 280 hz if there is no output there ?

So guys, my question is "How far up do you think I can safely take the woofers with a 24 DB crossover before severe interference patterns hurt me ?

I cam measure the vertical spacing ?

I can't help but thinking that if the midrange ribbons don't like to play low, that some of what I hear is the VMPS crossover is trying to force the ribbons to do what they do not want to do.
That is, play low.

Maybe they will not blow up, but they might not sound good either being forced to play what they do not like ?

• http://www.sedonaskysound.com/vmps_rm40.htm

I can't find any, unless you search 'monsoon' and you get three hits.

>>Why don't I see anyone but VMPS using this driver ?
Not many people build line arrays.

RE: ribbon. The driver you talk about is a magnetic planar, it's
not a real ribbon tweeter. Don't worry, even manufacturers of the
products generically call both technologies a ribbon when they
share nothing in common. lol

>>I see people talking about line arrays of super expensive Scan
>>Speak and Seas drivers, but never see these drivers even mentioned.
>>Shoot, I have seen pairs of the computer speakers sell on Ebay for
>>50 dollars. That means only 25 bucks a driver, certainly cheaper
>>then the expensive convetional drivers used in some line arrays.

You can use a quality $20 - $30 cone midrange driver in a line array
with great results. My budget array uses 49 cent buyout drivers. lol
You can use $100 - $200 midranges too. You can probably make the monsoon array work well too. But I'd buy one driver first to audition it and compare the sound to other drivers to get an idea
on where it stands.

>>Now, if you say these drivers are only usable to 500 to 600 hz,
>>HOW does VMPS cross over at 280 hz at only 6 db per octave ?

A commercial product doesn't mean it's engineered well in spite
of what the brand image tells you. The reason I DIY is because
I don't like store bought speakers, otherwise life would be so
easy just to talk into the store and buy something, you can take
up another hobby like fishing. hehehe

Hypothetical. What if you used that driver for 500hz - 10,000hz
operation. What are you going to use for low pass 500hz? What
are you going to use for >10khz ?

Lets assume that driver is indeed awesome and can play down to
500hz with authority, but has a weak top end, what are you gonna
do about it? Now you need another tweeter line, you need a midbass
line to cover from subwoofer to 500hz. You open up a new can of
worms.

On the other hand, you can take a simple $30 Dayton 6" midwoofer,
sealed and integrate with a subwoofer easy. Do you want to be a bass
maniac? Then port that Dayton midrange and tune to 45 - 55hz to get
more SPL. Use a $4 - $30 tweeter line and this simple 2 way loudspeaker can pretty much rule over commercial offerings that
cost in the $20k - $30k range, maybe more.

IOW, a bunch of vifa mids and tweeters are going to sound like a bunch of Vifa mids and tweeters.

And, a bunch of cheap drivers are gonna sound like a bunch of cheap drivers.

Yes, it may play louder with less distortion, and may image differently, but a duck is a duck is a duck.

IME, to get a REALLY good sounding Line Array takes really good drivers.

Actually, sometimes I think one might be better off builing a conventional speaker with really good drivers, rather then a line array with cheaper drivers, assuming the same budget.

If you think you can take a bunch of 50 cent drivers and see God by constructing a line array, fine.

But I will bet that if you took those same drivers, and made a smaller system out of them, the sound would be similar.\

Maybe it won't play as loud with as low distortion, and it will image different, but the sonic character of a speaker is determined by it's drivers, all things equal/

That is why guys like Rick Craig make Excelarrays, and use all out drivers.