folded voight pipes??? [message #21357] |
Sat, 10 December 2005 10:34 |
jim denton
Messages: 162 Registered: May 2009
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Master |
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Recently made contact with a seller on Audiogon about some used Lowthers PM6A's and he said that these will amaze and befuddle one in a Voight folded pipe design----well, since I live in a constant state of Befuddlement....(that's located North of Texas and just South of Kansas, ) it took me a few days to, blink.... FOLDED pipe?? Is anyone up on this? I guess I've seen plans for this in a BR box design but not in a pipe design? He also mentioned the Norway Lowther guys building bigger pipe boxes for the 8" over the 6" drivers---wider and deeper at the top --almost 4" seperate the baffles??? I'm searching for some more details to this idea ...JD
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Re: folded voight pipes??? [message #21359 is a reply to message #21357] |
Mon, 12 December 2005 08:50 |
Bob Brines
Messages: 186 Registered: May 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
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Master |
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The "Voigt Pipe" is a design attributed to Paul Voigt, incorrectly, I might add -- Voigt's patented tapered pipe is completely different. It is tapered front to back, coming to a point at the top and being rather deep at the bottom. The driver is roughly 1/2 way down the pipe and there is a port at the bottom front. The best known "Voigt Pipe" is the Lowther Club of Norway design. This design most likely used the PM6A or PM6C. Any "Voigt Pipe" can be folded, that is bent back on itself 180 degrees. The front then is the original pipe from the port up to the driver, and the top part of the pipe folds back toward the floor. In the case of the LCN pipe, this will reduce the height from 72" to ~ 40" high. A variation of the folded "Voigt Pipe" is the "Weems' Pipe", named after David Weems. Neither the LCN "Voigt Pipe" or the "Weems' Pipe" variation are very good designs. They were build empirically without any real science behind them. They suffer from significant and very audible roughness in the 100-500 Hz range, right where the music is. Now that we have Martin King's worksheets, we do much better. You might investigate the MLTL design. BTW, although I may get flamed for saying so, the "Voigt Pipe" is really a type of back horn. All of the same physics apply. Bob
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Re: folded voight pipes??? [message #21361 is a reply to message #21360] |
Mon, 12 December 2005 15:05 |
Bob Brines
Messages: 186 Registered: May 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
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Master |
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The success of a quarter-wave speaker depends on controlling the first 2 or 3 harmonics. The normal procedure with a "Voigt Pipe", also known as a Tapered Quarter Wave Tube, is to place the driver at the node of the 1st harmonic, which is acoustically, but not necessarily physically, 1/2 way down the pipe. This completely suppresses the 1st harmonic. The problem with a poorly designed TQWT is that the 3rd harmonic (there are only odd harmonics in a stopped pipe) is not properly suppressed. The Lowther Club of Norway TQWT is much too small in volume to allow the suppressed 1st harmonic to affect the 3rd. In an untapered Mass-Loaded Transmission Line speaker, the normal procedure is to place the driver at the first node of the 3rd harmonic, about 1/5 the length of the pipe. Suppressing the 3rd harmonic reflects both ways and helps to suppress both the 1st and 5th harmonic. Generalizations are not real good with pipes, but I have found that if a driver works at all in a quarter-wave pipe, an untapered pipe will usually lead to the smoothest output. The graphs above are are modeled output using a Lowther PM6C diver in the LCN TQWT, a quick hack at an optimized TQWT and an optimized MLTL. The MLTL presents the smallest physical cabinet and the smoothest output. I am treading as close as I think I can to the limits of what a commercial vendor can say, but is worth at least what it cost you. Bob
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Re: Clarifying questions [message #21365 is a reply to message #21363] |
Tue, 13 December 2005 05:49 |
Bob Brines
Messages: 186 Registered: May 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, AR
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Master |
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Right. The first harmonic is the system tuning frequency. Higher harmonics are are multiples of this. You have to be careful of exactly how the author is numbering things. When talking to anyone not deeply involved in the technical, I use the numbering system above. Particularly when dealing with computer programing, you will see the fundamental listed as F0, the first multiple as F1 and so on. Then there is a numbering system based on overtones. In an open pipe where all harmonics are produced, the first overtone is the second harmonic, or F1. In a stopped pipe, the first overtone is the third harmonic, or F2. Totally confusing to the casual reader. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Bob
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